Slitherine

I saw this comment on the Matrix forum and am really curious to know what players' preferences are to having 2D NATO-style symbols or 3D icons/sprites.

From the Matrix PzC forum wrote:(some players think) "3D icons are childish and dull"

See the full thread: Matrix forum thread

In the poll, I am not asking about the various ways icons are presented (by any modder) but in having any sort of icons at all.

What do you think?

I like the current icons. They are pretty enough and fit the graphic style perfectly while being simple enough to allow for fast identification of units.

The only advantage i see from using NATO counters is their standardization. Someone familiar with them can recognize the unit types at the first glance. For someone not familiar with them it takes probably longer to learn them and get used to them then to get to know all the current icons and to identify the units using them.

When it comes to whatever someone prefer .. well that's a question of taste and can not be discussed objectively. Simple as that ... anyone using "x looks childish and dull" as argument already disqualifies himself from the start on.

i purchased PzC because of the spirit to PG. childish wasn't the reason. if i wanted nato counters i would have purchased another game filled with them.

Are you serious? The good graphics is the main merit of PC. 2D Nato symbols are ok for some true strategic behemoth like "War in the East", but everyone loves PC because it features a variety of weapon types that you can actually look at.

For this style and level of game I think the symbols and sounds help make it what it is. Whilst it would be annoying if all the development time went on graphics, the simple but stylish graphics as they are now really fit the game. As above, for more strategic level games I'd expect the NATO symbols.

Nato symbols don't tell you what kind of vehicle you have just by looking at them. How would I know if my Nato icon was a tiger tank or a panther?

NATO counters in a PG style game? Blasphemy!

Nah....but seriously: I remember similar debates in the HOI world, there between counters and (animated) sprites. There was a technical argument for counters, they did load faster than animated sprites with lots of frames (which plays no role in PG/PzC).

However, aside from this those debates degenerated quite often into some kind of "counters are cooler/better/whatever than sprites because I like them more and therefore declare them to be cooler/better/whatever" nonsense.

If people prefer counters nobody stops them from using them or modding them in, but I personally like the current style gfx. None of those prefernces is per se any better than the other.

brettz123 wrote:Nato symbols don't tell you what kind of vehicle you have just by looking at them. How would I know if my Nato icon was a tiger tank or a panther?

In the example mod on the Matrix thread the guy has put the name of each unit below the NATO symbol, so it has an armoured symbol with Panther, Tiger, etc... below it.

If I want to play with 2D icons I load up Operational art of War. PC is deffanatly better played with 3D icons IMHO. After looking at the link the 2D tiles/icons would completly ruin PC for me

Bonners wrote:

brettz123 wrote:Nato symbols don't tell you what kind of vehicle you have just by looking at them. How would I know if my Nato icon was a tiger tank or a panther?

In the example mod on the Matrix thread the guy has put the name of each unit below the NATO symbol, so it has an armoured symbol with Panther, Tiger, etc... below it.

Followed the link and the tiles aren't as bad. To each his own I suppose but I still prefer the sprites. Will be interesting to see how he changes the map. I could see doing a play through with the tiles if the map is also changed.

There may be a case for their use on the strategic map - that would actually make sense.

At the battalion level and lower, one main weapon system predominates, such as a tank battalion or an artillery battalion, making the current sprites(and their amusing animations)my preferred unit. At the divisional level and higher I myself prefer the Nato symbols, as they better represent an integrated group of weapons systems.

El_Condoro wrote:There may be a case for their use on the strategic map - that would actually make sense.

The only thing against that would be, as a general rule of thumb there isnt just the NATO symbol, but also the indicator for size, e.g. xx, III, x etc... From comments I've seen from the designers on here, the units dont actually represent specific sizes of units and can change from map to map as to what they actually represent, which is the beauty of the game.

Bonners wrote:The only thing against that would be, as a general rule of thumb there isnt just the NATO symbol, but also the indicator for size, e.g. xx, III, x etc... From comments I've seen from the designers on here, the units dont actually represent specific sizes of units and can change from map to map as to what they actually represent, which is the beauty of the game.

Yep.

viewtopic.php?t=25930

3D icons childish? Hogwash.
I play PanzerCorps becuase of the graphics - not in spite of them. I want visual realism, or at least the best approximation of such. When I served on a USAF flightcrew (& watched Airbornemongo jump out the side...),we didn't fly little square flat cardboard representations of aircraft. I want my game to look as real as possible. Cooler for me. The best of all gaming worlds would be one that looked as if we were hovering close to a real battlefield and have Terminator type (Google Glasses anyone) sunglasses that gave us a plethora of data by just looking at an object. Should the game change to cardboard markers, I would cease playing and find a different game.

If players want more information that a cardboard square provides, then petition the game designers to add in a "mouse-over" feature.

Personally I like the game graphs as it is and have absolutley no need for any nato rubbish in Pz C. For a big strategy game on corps/army lvl it would be ok but not here, and I kind of like to see the models of the different tanks infantry, StuG's etc. Each to his own but this is my opinion and a strong one at that.

So I like nato symbols and if I have the choice I use them in most cases.
So for Panzer Corps both ways are not the best, because motorised units have different modes. They are in the truck or on foot. In Panzer Corps you are able to see the mode the unit has used, with nato symbols you have a difference between motorised units and those without a truck. Both are important information, so to have both would be great.

Next important point is to differ troops of allied nations, especially infantry. So you have to handle romanian and italian infantry in another way than the german ones. Same is true for americans and british or french ones. They have different combat stats and it is important which unit conquers a flag. So I had some games with romanian city flags in a important position to recruite new troops So nato symbols are very good to get this information.

Ok nato symbols are not as good to remember units stats, because it is easier to deal with real figures than with names. But there are so many units, so I have to look up the stats in most cases.

I would like to have an in game button to switch between both settings.

Best regards
Gwaylare

dks wrote:i purchased PzC because of the spirit to PG.

Thats was my reason too.
My Vote is for the Current icons.

I prefer sprites over nato symbols but I've been thinking of doing a nato icon mod for those who like them. It wouldn't be to hard using Gimp and I could even add a drop shadow to them for a more 3D effect. The only problem would be getting the little animations like gun fire and explosions to work with nato symbols. Still I think PanzerCorps is more suited for sprites.

Scott900091 wrote:I prefer sprites over nato symbols but I've been thinking of doing a nato icon mod for those who like them. It wouldn't be to hard using Gimp and I could even add a drop shadow to them for a more 3D effect.

I too have already thought for some time in doing a NATO counter mod. But I'm glad you're volunteering yourself, because at the moment I'm filled with work in other projects. Anyway if you need help, you can contact me.
I too think that a drop shadow would work to give a 3D effect.

Scott900091 wrote:The only problem would be getting the little animations like gun fire and explosions to work with nato symbols.

I've always thought that for that mod you would have to disable animations and sound. You can do that in the game options.

Scott900091 wrote:Still I think PanzerCorps is more suited for sprites.

Agree.

I too have thought that this style of counters could be also used:


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