Slitherine

after reading a lot in this forum plenty of ideas of new units poped up by the players.

maybe it is a good idea to summarize them to make the devs some sleepless nights

I would like to see:

- HS129B - close attack aircraft
- Krad Inf. (already mentioned by somebody before)
- Volkssturm (already mentioned)
- Tanks E-10/E-50/E-100/PantherII/Panther F (we have the maus, why not the E series and Panther F / II;) )
- Brandenburger

Thats all from my side folks

I would like to see mortars in the game. They could have the range of two hexes and they should be able to move without mouting two hexes aswell. Mortars would be invaluable in urban and close combat situations. Then, it would be cool to add all the collection of units mounted on the APC's, like mortars or anti-tank etc. It would be also nice, to have machine gunners - units with high soft attack parameters.

What I`d actually like is that each faction has a unit in all major categories. Bulgaria, Belgium, the Netherlands, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Greece and Yugoslavia are pretty much empty shells. With the exception of Belgium iirc none of them have any aircraft, neither iirc has any tanks, some don`t have any aa or at weapons. Consequently they don`t feel like real armies. I understand it`s hard to make complete rosters for all nations, but at least give each of them 2 or 3 more units(a tank, a fighter, a bomber) of those that could be interpreted as their most important types. For example if in addition to its current units Romania would get a Skoda Lt 35/Panzer 35(t) tank, a IAR 80 fighter and a Savoia Marchetti JRS 79B bomber it would have most important fields covered and would look like a real faction. It`s not that fun imo to keep on fighting the major faction`s equipment everywhere you go(if you`re in the Greece scenario as the Axis for example you`ll know that the only tanks and aircraft you`ll meet are those of the British which you`ve met before several times).

ivanov wrote:I would like to see mortars in the game. They could have the range of two hexes and they should be able to move without mouting two hexes aswell. Mortars would be invaluable in urban and close combat situations. Then, it would be cool to add all the collection of units mounted on the APC's, like mortars or anti-tank etc. It would be also nice, to have machine gunners - units with high soft attack parameters.

That level is not the one of PzC imo. You`re basically describing weapons that are part of existing infantry units in PzC. To have machine gunners and mortar teams individually depicted in game pretty much means getting the game to platoon levels of detail. If I`m not mistaking that`s what Steel Panthers was about.

I would like to see motorcycle recon infantry and some kind of Fallschirmjäger mortar/heavy weapon unit, able to airdrop. A unit with limited indirect supression fire and/or limited AT-fire, who could "switch" between mortar and anti-tank mode.

Mark50 wrote:

ivanov wrote:I would like to see mortars in the game. They could have the range of two hexes and they should be able to move without mouting two hexes aswell. Mortars would be invaluable in urban and close combat situations. Then, it would be cool to add all the collection of units mounted on the APC's, like mortars or anti-tank etc. It would be also nice, to have machine gunners - units with high soft attack parameters.

That level is not the one of PzC imo. You`re basically describing weapons that are part of existing infantry units in PzC. To have machine gunners and mortar teams individually depicted in game pretty much means getting the game to platoon levels of detail. If I`m not mistaking that`s what Steel Panthers was about.

I was expecting this argument, but I think in this game the unit scale is very relative. Heavy mortars ( e.g 120mm ) were organized into a independent units, like artillery and operated outside the structure of the infantry units. Here an example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1938_mortar

The M1A1 75MM, M3 105MM, LG40 75MM Airborn Artillery units would be a fun addition

Would love an air asset that does spotter/recon such as the Fieseler Fi156 Storch. Long loiter times achieved by replacing ammo for fuel.

I really would love to see Panther IIs in the game, it would allow you to upgrade your Panthers to something that could really hold their own against Pershings in the invasion USA scenarios. If the war went well enough that they were able to invade the USA, I would imagine that we would have seen Panther IIs.

What's your problem with "vanilla" Panthers ?

HS-123

Glider borne forces or units that could be transported by glider such as

2.8cm sPzB41
7.5cm Leichtgeschutz
10.5cm Leichtgeschutz

Mortars could probably be included based on the varying scale of the game probably just the 80mm and 120mm these were employed at the company level I believe while the 50mm was employed on a platoon level.

Mech Infantry Scout units. This could consist of various halftracks with infantry. On the move say more then 2 spots the infantry mount up and lose some spotting and defensive ability etc. But the next turn they discount and gain more spotting range and defense. They would definatly be a little bit more stout then infantry traveling mounted. Would be nice to see a graphic of the infantry deployed next to the halftrack when unmounted.

What's your problem with "vanilla" Panthers ?

KV 85 flogs them

That shouldn't be the case though, Panther does everything better than the KV-85 except armor.
Better gun, better speed, better initiative, and better close defense.

Definately the IS-3 should be included, when the germans have prototypes or low production models as units, such as Do-335 and the Maus, the soviets should get one as well.

Locarnus wrote:Definately the IS-3 should be included, when the germans have prototypes or low production models as units, such as Do-335 and the Maus, the soviets should get one as well.

The IS-3 is already in the game - well, it's icon is - it's the one used now for the IS-II. What's needed are new stats for the IS-III in the equipment file and a new icon for the IS-II. But the initial use of the IS-III is still debatable. The Allies didn't even know about it (officially) until the Soviet parades well after the war ended. It didn't see any action, or perhaps a little in Manchuria against the Japanese. Of course, the Soviets would have had prototypes but wouldn't want to reveal them to the western Allies unless it was absolutely necessary. But, perhaps that's just being too historical...

The structure, size, and shape of the mantlet of the unit in game is definitely an IS-2, I think just the angle of the unit make the turret look like the dome of the IS-3.

IS2

IS2


In Game

Better view of the mantlet


IS3

Definitely has a different mantlet and a much smoother dome.

Ok, I stand corrected. It took me a long time to see the difference in the icon and, in the end, it boiled down to one thing; the IS-2 seems to have a rear-pointing MG on the rear of its turret (not sure it is an MG but that's what it looks like) whereas the IS-3 does not.

Is the Wellington bomber present in PzC?

Also, what is the Char B1 from the game meant to represent? Historically there was a Char B1 version of which only some 35 tanks were made to my knowledge and then there was the upgraded Char B1 bis of which some 342 tanks were made. There were significant differences between the two(armament, armour, engine and weight). Ideally both should be represented in game, but since B1 bis was more numerous(and probably made the greater impression) maybe you should reclassify the in game unit from Char B1 to Char B1bis.

I wish there were some air recon units in the game. I don't understand why this part of equipment is completely forgotten. I think it could be a part of tactical bombers or bombers. Above this there were also many other ground recon units not included in the available equipment.

marsellus wrote:I wish there were some air recon units in the game. I don't understand why this part of equipment is completely forgotten.

Ever since the first PG came out I`ve thought about the observation/reconnaissance planes too. I could not find any reason for their existence in PG though and I still don`t see any use for them now. As I see it, these light observation planes tend to have short range, no extra observation abilities to a bomber/fighter, slow speed and very little weapons if any. So what you`d get in game would be generally a short ranged, low initiative, poor ground attack, basically defenseless air to air plane. Then there`s the fact that they would require extra slot spaces in your army and if these are given in game just with the recon aircraft in mind and then not used by some players, the balance of the missions might get trickier since some people would probably use the extra slots to get more armour or bombers.

The only advantage, if we could call it that, is that it would be cheaper than a regular bomber/fighter and would allow your other aircraft to do their specific jobs only. But that doesn`t go well in game either, because being such a pray for enemy fighters you`d either have to escort them with your own fighters(which incidentally means both wasting your fighters` missions on this and basically sending your fighters where you want to recon which you`re already doing currently anyway) or alternatively leave them unescorted and loose them fast(which means that you`d have to buy alot of them, which in turn means that the low cost aspect isn`t true either and you`d probably be better off using regular fighters which can defend themselves and have other uses too).

In addition to this there are many types of observation aircraft historically and you`d have a whole new line of equipment that the developers would need to create units for. Since they haven`t been able to cover the other classes so far I`m not sure it`s doable to have the air recon branch too.