Slitherine

Late in the war Recon seems to become extremely vulnerable. Some of the heavier tanks are able to take out even a 15 strength unit in one or two combats. This basically forces you to have to "protect" your recon with heavier units and you can't use the recon as intended in a screening roll. I think it might be kind of a nice touch to allow an "alternate" mode for recon units. When this mode is activated whenever the recon is attacked it will immediatly try to withdraw before combat can commence(you will have no choice in the matter). The withdraw chance to succeed could be based on several things such as the speed of the unit attacking number on units in the zone of control to the recon etc. Also everytime the recon is attacked and withdraws its chance to withdraw after that could be reduced by like 50 percent or something along those lines. Another balancing factor that could be placed on the recon would be if it fails in its check then the attacker could get a bonus or the recon could face some kind of penalty to simulate the fact that it was trying to run but got caught and was disorganized.

Your proposal, while perhaps okay for single player, is too powerful for MP. Recon units are already invaluable for scouting/hitting low GD target, like artillery. They are also extremely cheap. They don't need to be super hard to kill.

Yea this came up a few times during 1941 BETA as Allied armor started to get stronger and stronger with better tanks (HA rating going above 10 for the first time).

Any buff to recon cars would make them too good in the multiplayer scene, where they are already VERY powerful(cheap, fast, excellent vision, expendable yet easy to replace, too dangerous to ignore because of the havoc they can wreak behind the lines).

Simply increasing the GD of Late War recon cars also rubs people the wrong way, especially the historical crowd who are intimately familiar with the exact armor of these units down to the millimeter.

In the end, recon cars serve a unique role in Panzer Corps. They are the best unit to lead an attack with because they can advance at a quicker rate than most units and reveal more of the 'fog of war' while doing so. This also tends to get them killed when crushed by counterattack... but hey, better a cheap expendable unit than valuable SS infantry caught in transport!

The one thing I would change for MP is to give all-terrain/tracked recon units to all the major factions, the British/Americans/Soviets. Currently the Germans have a significant advantage in recon units. The T-60 and T-70 tanks are natural candidates for the Soviets, they can be made into PzII Luchs type units.

I have noticed that the AI for Panzer Corps (and even for the re-worked Panzer General put out by Rudankort) appears to be programmed to especially go after recon units. They are cheap and easily replaceable when killed, but I have found it difficult to keep a recon unit in my core long enough to get very powerful or gain any heroes. Still, I am happy with the way they are currently used in PC.

ah yeah I guess I wasn't thinking in terms of multi-player as I have not played this mode. I guess in a situation where you don't care if the unit is killed/destroyed it wouldn't matter much but from the campaign persepective it is nice to preserve units.

Zhivago wrote:I have noticed that the AI for Panzer Corps (and even for the re-worked Panzer General put out by Rudankort) appears to be programmed to especially go after recon units. They are cheap and easily replaceable when killed, but I have found it difficult to keep a recon unit in my core long enough to get very powerful or gain any heroes. Still, I am happy with the way they are currently used in PC.

I'm actually pretty sure that the AI is programmed to seek engagements where the combat odds are in their favor, or at least even. This is why on Manstein you see AI units attacking a lot more, because odds are much more favorable when you have +5 strength to all units. Recon units have the least armor and are often exposed, hence the AI will go after them the most. This can be used to your advantage, just buy recon units to act as a "shield" for your more valuable units. I personally don't like this AI behavior.

While I'm not really big into realism in games , think of this:

Cav troopers (recon) have always (in every army ) had a high espririt de' corps and morale because of the dangerous job they do and the high casulaty rates they incur.

So..... even though I love my recon units, I think the current system is good

The stratgey that I use ,to prolong their life and usefullness, is that I will send them out 2-3 hexes to "get a look" and them pull them back behind my main force. I don't leave them sitting in the "battle line",if I can avoid it, nor do I leave them "out in front" of my "battle line" because of their brittleness.

In a big "fixed" battle I only send them after weakened enemy units to finish them off and I don't send them very far,,because like in real life the Recon(Cav) is a screen/scout unit and is not really meant to slug it out w/ Main Force units.

I hope this helps a little

Yes, advance and retreat works nicely, I think that I still use the same recon unit at the end of DLC 42 that I got at the start.

charonjr wrote:Yes, advance and retreat works nicely, I think that I still use the same recon unit at the end of DLC 42 that I got at the start.

Same here