Slitherine

After playing 5 hours and my experiences w/ other turn-based games, these are the big problems I have w/ this game and I really really want to like this game-

1. The cities don't have names so they're just 'another' location to go to. There's references to it in the intro of each mission but not in the game nor is there a mission briefing if I want to re-review.

2. I know I'm going to get crap for saying this ... there's toooo many variables and I can't properly predict the outcome of each battle. Maybe I truly don't understand 'Initiative', 'Entrenchment' or maybe it's not obvious how the land space will affect the outcome but I wish it could be simpler (gasp). When I do the battle details to predict the outcome screen, I can not comprehend all those statistics. It's too mathematical and TMI for the player.

3. It's hard to see the units on certain spaces because the color is so similar or even sometimes the country they're from.

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Those are the major problems above and these are little things I think could make the game better:

1. Give the player a sense of accomplishment after each mission with a different music theme or sound effect and add some cutscene or FMV. It's like I get done and I keep saying "That's it?!" I like in other games where there is a movie mode and you can go back and re-watch the mission FMV/cutscene so I want to play more and unlock more movies.

2. Add motion or make the battles more lively (ie. PG3: Scorched Earth or PG3d: Assault)

3. Regarding the Prestige points, they should reward you a bonus amount for Decisive Victory vs. Marginal Victory. Moreover, replenishing supplies or healing should be fixed amounts so it's predictable. It seems like it's calculated too specifically. The Prestige point system is wayyy to complex. Just say heal/re-supply is like 100 points and it costs that much whether I want heal/re-supply 1/10 or 9/10 to reach 100%. It makes the player really consider whether they should spend it given there will be 'waste'.

My experiences w/ these games are limited but I've had fun w/ them and they include Panzer Tactics and Advanced Wars series which, admittedly are simple, but comprehensible and can really get into the gameplay/stories. I feel like the Campaign in Panzer Korps is just a bunch of mish-mashed user-designed stages w/ a mediocre presentation to string along one mission to another...

Please update? I want to love this game!!!

I assume you are still in training missions. All of the main scenarios have city names. That should help you get your bearings.

As for you other two questions - chill, just give it time. 5 hours is a relatively short time to learn any strategy game. It really is less numbers and math than it looks at first. Sometime soon it will become almost intuitive.

1. You can find the name of the towns in the right hand panel. Of course, if you are playing the Tutorial then they are called generic "Camp"

2. In the beginning you don't need to know all the underlying mechanics, just watch the casualties prediction indicator and in some cases (when attacking cities, fortifications) use CTRL+click on target to see the rugged defense chance, if it's too great (over 15-20%) try to reduce entrenchment further with air attack and artillery.

3. To make sure you don't miss any units check the strategic mini-map (button in the right panel), and before ending the turn, make sure you have cycled through all of your units using next unit button.

This game is more for strategy fans and military history enthusiasts and it's less about arcade style games. Therefor, we don't need flashy graphics and animations to enjoy it

ryukikass wrote:After playing 5 hours and my experiences w/ other turn-based games, these are the big problems I have w/ this game and I really really want to like this game-


2. I know I'm going to get crap for saying this ... there's toooo many variables and I can't properly predict the outcome of each battle. Maybe I truly don't understand 'Initiative', 'Entrenchment' or maybe it's not obvious how the land space will affect the outcome but I wish it could be simpler (gasp). When I do the battle details to predict the outcome screen, I can not comprehend all those statistics. It's too mathematical and TMI for the player.

Like an above poster mentioned, you don;t have to worry about all the variables at the beginning. Just look at the predicted outcome. I like having to consider the different variables when making my decisions. I think much of the fan base for this game does too.

ryukikass wrote: 3. Regarding the Prestige points, they should reward you a bonus amount for Decisive Victory vs. Marginal Victory. Moreover, replenishing supplies or healing should be fixed amounts so it's predictable. It seems like it's calculated too specifically. The Prestige point system is wayyy to complex. Just say heal/re-supply is like 100 points and it costs that much whether I want heal/re-supply 1/10 or 9/10 to reach 100%. It makes the player really consider whether they should spend it given there will be 'waste'.

I don't think it makes sense to charge the same amount for 1 resupply point as 9 both from a realism perspective or a gameplay one. It just doesn't make sense to me. I could buy the arguement that it shouldn't be linear as I can imagine there would be fixed costs, or costs that don't scale linearly. I could see a formula such as 50 + amount per point for that unit x number of points reinforced. You already do need to consider when the best time to reinforce / resupply is since you are giving up the units turn. Do you spend a turn to go from 9 to 10, or wait unit the unit is dowm lower.

ryukikass wrote: My experiences w/ these games are limited but I've had fun w/ them and they include Panzer Tactics and Advanced Wars series which, admittedly are simple, but comprehensible and can really get into the gameplay/stories. I feel like the Campaign in Panzer Korps is just a bunch of mish-mashed user-designed stages w/ a mediocre presentation to string along one mission to another...

I agree with you that the scenarios in the campaign are not that interesting. They get pretty repetitive. They all seem like the same nut to crack. Take capture x amount of cities protected by artillery, anti air and infantry nestled in between some rivers. I have been told that the DLC scenarios are more interesting by many players.

robc wrote: . I have been told that the DLC scenarios are more interesting by many players.

That sir,,,is a HUGE understatement

I noticed that you mentioned (PG3), from what I have seen playing the game for way too many hours over the last two weeks, that this is really a modern update for PG & PG2. And I have to tell you that it Rocks - from that prospective it is just as it should be, IMHO.

Slitherine is a small indi company - not a huge outfit, and honestly it is to thier and our benifit. Even though I have no experiance with the staff here - I feel like I need to give them 2 thumbs up as they seem to be doing a bang up job with the games they doing.

Yes the stats can be a little over whelming at times but sometimes ya just have to have them, everyone is differant in those needs.

I am still just playing the long campaign in the original game, though I have bought all the DLC that is in the shop, and can not wait for the DLC 42 campaign to be released latter this month. I live in the States and discovered this game thanks to Matrix games over here, and I am so glad that I did.

Sorry for the soapbox approach - but I am an "old" war gamer and am just LOVING Panzer Corps, please give the game some more time and think about trying one of the DCL adons.

At least 2 of your major issues are not really valid
1 - cities and rivers do have names
3 - hit esc to bring up settings during play and highlight "unit glow" to help see your units easier.

As for No 2, there are too many variables. its true that there are lots of things to consider but i think most of the variables add to the game rather than detract and enhance the strategy side of things.

Terrain is big variable, so remember infantry is king in close terrain like cities and forests. Panzers perform better on the plains and grasslands. Be careful attacking from rivers and into swamps, there are big penalties.

Entrenchments offer extra points to the land defense of the units that are in them. Higher numbers are better for defenders and offer the chance of rugged defense (a nasty holding action). Again troops get the advantage of halving the entrenchment defense and firing at a units close defense when they attack, all other units face the full value. Try to use artillery and air power against these targets. Combined arms attacks is the key.

Initative mostly determines who shoots first. Generally bigger guns with longer range get higher initiative but some units like turretless tank destroyers and towed anti tank units suffer penalties here despite being well armed. Theres a formula behind it but thats the basics. Remember initiative is also effected by close terrain and bad weather. Big guns need clear line of fire and sight to target (you can't shoot through a mountain).

Weather like snow and mud effects movement, spotting, supply, initiative (and therefore combat) for all units on the ground. Air units are also effected by cloudy weather and cant operate in rain and snow. Check the weather report for details.

Units themselves have many variables. Some, like anti tank guns have excellent hard attack and are better used against armour and bunkers, but are not as effective against other soft targets. Hit right click on your unit and your target and check the stats. You will get familiar with what they mean soon.

Last but not least. Plan your attacks, use what works best, where and against who. Artillery is key to cracking tough defenses and enhancing your own and always leave your army set up for your opponents turn. There's little advantage in destroying 5 units during your attack if you lose 5 during the counter.

There's plenty of variables in Panzer Corps and of course theres always bad luck but you can maximize your chances.

As several other posters have pointed out, this is a game of strategy, not an arcade game. Your comment about giving the player a sense of accomplishment is addressed by the detailed post-action briefing you get after the Decisive Victory/Marginal Victory screen. This, IMHO, is a great way of telling the player how he/she has performed.

just one thing, this is NOT a casual game.
thats what I like about it. it has depth and that is what keeps me interested for weeks. there is many competitive games that offer simplicity and I am glad panzercorps offers something rare and different.

there's toooo many variables and I can't properly predict the outcome of each battle


So wait until you play War in the East...

You described what you want and what you apparently not want and I am sorry to say you are so way off with your expectations and desires that I see little chance that this will work out.

Casaubon wrote:just one thing, this is NOT a casual game.
thats what I like about it. it has depth and that is what keeps me interested for weeks. there is many competitive games that offer simplicity and I am glad panzercorps offers something rare and different.

The funny thing this is a pretty casual game as far as war games go. Yes this isn't casual like Bejeweled or something like that, but it is a pretty light and accessible war game (not in a bad way).

Thx for all the suggestions.

Here's another idea- Artillery shoots 2 and more hexes in range, skipping one hex.

Adds more chess elements. other turn-based strategy games do this.

Also mounting/embarking on trains/planes takes too many turns. They typically get back logged waiting their turn to land in one hex...

ryukikass wrote:Thx for all the suggestions.

Here's another idea- Artillery shoots 2 and more hexes in range, skipping one hex.

Adds more chess elements. other turn-based strategy games do this.

Also mounting/embarking on trains/planes takes too many turns. They typically get back logged waiting their turn to land in one hex...

You should pretty much start your scenario in the planes already with your paratroopers. Most scenarios you will not have to drop them more than once. Skipping one hex would be unrealistic as most artillery can fire at short range and military units are actually trained to fire over open sites against very close threats. Not too many serious wargames limit your range like this (some do but not many). Skipping one hex would be mostly pointless as you usually have your artillery behind one of your other units and it would be fairly unrealistic.

You shouldn't be trying to jam all your guys into one hex from rail, boat, or plain transports anyway. That would be pretty unrealistic too considering you shouldn't be able to just keep dropping guys on the same airfield like that. If you want to drop lots of troops then use paratroopers like they really did in WWII. Trains work really well considering you can get on and move in the same turn. This really increases the movement of troops when you use them. Having said that I haven't found a scenario yet that I thought you really needed to use rail movement.

I'm mostly drawing from my experiences w/ the game Panzer Tactics on the Nintendo DS. I'm really touting that game (and not slamming PC as I do like it) and recommend you fellow players to try it. In fact, I found a free Nintendo DS emulator (works on PC's and Mac's) at www.desmume.org and suggest you guys look for roms of the game. The instant differences I see in that game are-

1. artillery skips one hexes
2. use of fame (prestige) points to buy officers that have special abilities and it's clearly marked on the screen which vehicle they're in.
3. they have commando units that perform unique abilities like a) sabotage (wipes out the enemy's supplies) b) propaganda (that drops their morale and useful for following attackers to dish out bigger damage) and c) kill enemy officers so their ability is gone. These units have 2 moves during one turn to sneak in and then out as long as they're not in visible hexes
4. Unlike PC, the game has 150 total units vs. 400 units which I find is sophistically simple enough
5. The graphics, keep in mind, is on the portable DS so it's alot more like Panzer General 2-ish.

To the guy above, I'll try not bottlenecking my peeps into one city/airfield for transport. Maybe it was a feature I was trying out and thought how long it took! In Panzer Tactics DS, you deploy pretty much in 2 turns rather than 3 as their hexes had cities and airfields across 4 hexes (yes, somewhat different scale) so more units could deploy/embark out in one go...

I'll download the emulator tonight when I get home from work and check it out.

It would be a really good idea thought for Panzer Corps to have on screen recognition of what heroes you have in your unit. It is a little annoying that you can't tell just by looking.