Slitherine

The latest Version 5.04 has been released to current testers today. New testers will receive this version shortly

Regards
JDM

This version includes a complete reorganisation of the rules. At the moment the document has no table of contents or index. Rest assured that the final version will have both. The published version will also have over 70 explanatory diagrams. In the meantime we apologise for any difficulty you may have finding the information you need. We do recommend a full initial read through.

Here are the main changes from V 5.01. There may be others that are very minor or have slipped my mind. Also I have not necessarily listed wording changes that correct former misinterpretations/rules not working as intended. A full read though is recommended.

Note that MF archers shoot with 1.5 ranks at effective range as previously.

If you spot any important changes I have forgotten to list, say so and I will add them to the list.

1) 4th rank of pikes only counts in open terrain.

2) Mounted + POA vs MF and LF in the open only applies in Impact phase. (But see also (9) below),

3) Cohesion modifier -1 for MF losing close combat vs mounted or HF in open.

(NB Only applies to tests for losing the combat).

4) Cohesion modifier for fighting elephants or scythed chariots only applies when testing for losing such a combat.

5) Cohesion modifier when testing for shooting hits is -1 if suffered 1HP2B instead of 1HP3B. (Test is still triggered by 1 HP3B)

6) Points system extensively revised

7) Impact foot get + in impact phase vs all mounted, unless the foot are charging into shock mounted.

8 ) Skilled swords get net + vs foot swords but not mounted swords.

9) LF count half dice in close combat vs LH

10) Artillery get 2 dice in impact and melee, but get a - POA in melee.

11) Wheels and short moves never complex if either of the following apply:

 outside 6 MUs of enemy
 with a general

12) Shooting at or by a BG which is partly in close combat other than only as an overlap is at -

13) Movement by generals to and from battle groups, and measurement of command range has changed. See Movement of Generals section and the Glossary entry on Command Range. Generals with BGs are assumed to be in a fixed position within the BG irrespective of the actual position of their base. Command range and movement if the general leaves the BG are measured from that point. (Comments welcome on this change as the authors are not unanimous on it).

14) Evaders or routers bursting through friends are destroyed if they do not have sufficient move to clear the friends.

15) Expanding in melee comes immediately after conforming at the start of the movement phase.

16) Some changes to move distances in terrain.

17) redundant

18 ) Troops can shift up to half a base width to conform to an overlap position against troops already in combat.

19) Skirmishers can halt a charge 1MU away from revealed non-skirmishers and don't have to step forward into them.

20) Evaders charged from flank/rear can evade directly to their front.

21) LF who move up to an extra 2 MUs to pass right through friends cannot shoot this bound.

22) Expansion in melee section fully re-written. Troops eligible to fight or contribute to a POA cannot be moved.

23) Restricted area section revised to clear some cheese.

24) Base removal - clarified that if you remove a front rank base you must replace it if possible to maintain the same frontage of combat.

25) War Wagons (now called Battle Wagons)

a) Will be classified according to their entire attached crew, whether inside or supporting the wagons. Thus Hussites no longer have separate flailmen in war wagon BGs. (They will be allowed some separately deployed halberdiers etc in the army). Hussite battle wagons include both shooters and flailmen and would be classified as Battle Wagons, Crossbow, Heavy Weapon. The lists will be updated accordingly.
b) Base cost: Superior 20, Average 14, Poor 8. Pay 3 x POA cost.
c) Movement: 3 in open terrain, 2 in uneven, 1 in rough, 0 in difficult. Still all count undrilled and require CMT to move at all.
d) Count their long edge as 2 bases when shooting or in close combat.
e) Get 1 dice per base width when shooting. Shoot only from long edges.
f) Get 2 dice per base width in impact and melee. (Only 1 rank/file)
g) Are shot at at - POA by everything except artillery
h) Use normal close combat POAs for their weaponry (no overall + for being war wagons) but get + in impact vs mounted other than elephants and cancel assorted impact POAs as before.

26) Exchanges of position removed from the rules.

27) Further adjustments to move distances in bad going. (Knights and cavalry)

28 ) Double cohesion drop score reduced to 2.

29) Battle wagons and artillery never make a rout move. Instead they are destroyed and removed from the table.

30) Battle wagons and artillery never pursue.

31) Troops routing other than from shooting or close combat (or being charged when FRAG) rout towards their side’s rear table edge.

32) Battle wagons cannot defend fortifications.

33) Battle wagons and artillery never conform.

34) Battle wagons and artillery never expand or contract in melee.

35) Breakers off don’t pass through friends even if they are of a type they could normally interpenetrate.

36) A battle group in ORB formation never conforms to enemy.

37) Permanent fortifications removed from rules – they will be dealt with in detail in the campaign supplement.

38 ) Rules added for field fortifications – can’t be flanked across FF etc.

39) ZOI - A battle group cannot intercept across terrain that would cause it disorder or severe disorder.

40) Gullies - Gully (G) A gully is depression in the ground. It is too uneven to provide any uphill advantage but can conceal troops. Troops in a gully are only visible from outside within 1 MU. Troops in a gully can see outside.

41) Removed possibility of dismounting on arrival for flank marchers.

42) Heavy and scythed chariot move in Difficult reduced to 0.

jdm wrote:New testers will receive this version shortly

Argh, it's very hard to wait. You are really cruel !!!!
Don't forget to open the french forum for the french testers

Richard, all these amendments appear really a progress, it delays me to test them.

I think it was a typo on the movement cohesion refsheet. For a failed test it's now 6,5,4,3.
Olivier

olivier wrote:I think it was a typo on the movement cohesion refsheet. For a failed test it's now 6,5,4,3.
Olivier

Good point, thanks Olivier

At the end of the rulebook you put an example army list where the element point are given. Please do't do that; it's easier to change element points if after some rule life we think they're wrong in one sheet than in each army list book... and cheaper overall
Olivier

we are currently planning to do both Olivier. We tried to avoid points in the lists at all but too many people wanted them. Plus we are looking at a software gadget so the Pros will use that anyway and it will be fully up to date.

Si

The ++ for skilled swordsman is only showing as a single + on the Melee POA list

gerryb wrote:The ++ for skilled swordsman is only showing as a single + on the Melee POA list

There is no ++ for skilled swordsmen.

Swordsmen get no POA vs Swordsmen or Skilled swordsmen
Skilled swordsmen get a POA vs Foot Swordsmen.

Thus skilled swordsmen get a net + vs foot swordsmen.

Ignore me I'm having a bad day

Please everyone see the stream on GENERALS ELEMENTS for a request for rapid thought through comments on the laterantive generals rules.

We have changed generalws with some subtle effects that may or may not be worth it, and may not be immedaitely apparent at first rread. We have tried to lay outt he +s and -s for you to think through.

See what you all think - especially those with lots of experience of games under their belts please.

Si

is there no difference between Skilled Swordsmen and Swordsmen when fighting ordinary foot ?

gerryb wrote:is there no difference between Skilled Swordsmen and Swordsmen when fighting ordinary foot ?

Not unless they are swordsmen or armed with heavy weapons.

It is not really related to this change, but with the cleaner wording now it became more obvious.

When a mixed BL of light artillery and poor heavy foot rolls the compulsory CMT to move (and I want to make a second move with them afterwards) do I have to reroll the 6s? According to the rules I do, but it feels wrong. It may affect my standard deployment lines as well... As well, can it now perform any blue move without further rolls, or that is a separate CMT roll? What happens if the poor foot is drilled (so it is green to them)? Do they apply the re-rolls as well to those CMTs?

Heavy artillery should have indicated the terrains that disorder it, as although it does not move, it may still lose dice... Or the table could be simply changed to read "Artillery" rather than Light Artillery.

Jose

I test this as soon as possible.

As we are in final phase of the test, I would have just a note question : Could there be an index in the final version ?

nicofig wrote:I test this as soon as possible.

As we are in final phase of the test, I would have just a note question : Could there be an index in the final version ?

There will be.

jre wrote:When a mixed BL of light artillery and poor heavy foot rolls the compulsory CMT to move (and I want to make a second move with them afterwards) do I have to reroll the 6s? According to the rules I do, but it feels wrong. It may affect my standard deployment lines as well... As well, can it now perform any blue move without further rolls, or that is a separate CMT roll? What happens if the poor foot is drilled (so it is green to them)? Do they apply the re-rolls as well to those CMTs?

From the SECOND MOVES SECTION:

 The second move must be a simple ‘advance’. (Therefore light artillery and battle wagons cannot make second moves).

A mixed BL including light artillery cannot make a 2nd move.

For the first move you do indeed need to make the re-rolls.

• A mixed battle group or battle line tests using the worst applicable column in the above chart.
• Quality re-rolls apply to the CMT, but at the level of the lowest quality battle group in a battle line if testing for a battle line.

No exemption if the move is Green for the lowest quality BG.

Probably best to avoid mixed BLs of light artillery and Poor foot! It does not seem unreasonable to me that such a formation would be hard to control.

can it now perform any blue move without further rolls, or that is a separate CMT roll?

If it passed its CMT it can do any blue (1st) move. It does not have to roll again.

Heavy artillery should have indicated the terrains that disorder it, as although it does not move, it may still lose dice... Or the table could be simply changed to read "Artillery" rather than Light Artillery.

Good point.

Is there going to be a simplified set up ala 5.01? If not why "Full" Set up? If there is shouldn't that be tested as well?

John O

malekithau wrote:Is there going to be a simplified set up ala 5.01?

No

If not why "Full" Set up?

Good point

Is it possible to put the set up rules at the very front of the appendix? As this is the very first part of a game it will be referred to extensively, at least in the first few games especially as there is no abbreviated set up now. I was thinking that tabbing of the chapters/sections may also be useful even if less aesthetically pleasing.

I must say I prefer the new layout and having read through the rules again either I'm just understanding better or the language is clearer. Haven't decided which yet