Slitherine

I'm a little confused: I'm studiing in the game the StuH 42 and the StuG IV. The values of the StuG IV are for me a big suprise - even that it has also an arty mode. As I know, the StuG IV is almost the same, as the StuG III series, the difference is, that it was built on the Pz IV chasis.
If the StuG IV represents in the game not that historical type, than which one? Maybe the Sturmpanzer IV Brummbär?

The 1941 DLC will be released soon, maybe even today. Then you can see.
There you will have the StuG IIIB in a similar role like the StuG IV.


But only somewhat similar, The StuG IV's primary mode is basically to be like the StuG IIIG, anti-tank.
Plus a somewhat weak extra artillery mode which... might get some tweaking.

Unless the harder Hard Attack is needed you might want to have it in artillery mode and place other tanks and infantry around it, right at the front lines. The StuG will provide defensive fire which can lessen the impact of enemy attacks if not outright stop them. That's what the StuG IIIB does. It's a more support oriented kind of StuG than the "G" AT model.

The odd issue is that the StuG IV is placed in anti-tank, the StuH 42 in artillery. Interestingly the weak StuG IV artillery mode has a range of 2, the StuH 42 as well.


All in all both are still in development. I hope Kerensky comes along and talks about this, I don't know if I would violate the NDA too much when I talk about the StuG IIIB, as it might lead to comments about its effectiviness in the 1941 DLC.

Dont have the game here but StuG IV gun should be the same as the StuG IIIG.
StuH 42 should be the same as 10,5cm howitzer, probably with reduced range (?).

The question showed up, because, I'm making/modifiing the italian "advanced assult gun" familiy: the M42 75/34, the M42 75/46 and the M42 105/25 (and later I also want to create the hungarian Zrínyi I and Zrínyi II assault guns).

I think, if we want to modell these types, than It's quiet hard to do it. There is little, or no information on the net about battle values and experiences, even gun penetration values about these vehicles (OK, I have gun penetration values from the Combat Mission game for Zrínyi II and that should be almos equivalent for M42 105/25, but that's all).
The AT capability of the 105-series are also not easy. For example, the StuH 42 had only limited HEAT rounds, only about 1-3. The Zrínyi is modelled in the Combat Mission, that it had 30% of the ammo HEAT rounds (sadly, there is also no other information about that). So, now, what values has to be added to them?? Plus, they should be good combat vehicles - if the StuH 42 is a weakling, who cares? There are many better equipment. But the Zrínyi II is the best hungarian armoured vehicle (expect the Tiger I and Panther A, but they were given by the germans and only in few numbers), and it performed also well on battlefield, and I want give the italians in the italian campaign also some better armoured unit, later in the game (from the late 43), as the M14/41, so it would be important, to know a little more...

Otherways, it is also a good question, that these assult guns are really artillery, in the form of artillery is used in PC? I don't know, if assault guns were used more in indirect, or in direct fire mode? Maybe, they should have only a range of 1, instead of 2.

impar wrote:Dont have the game here but StuG IV gun should be the same as the StuG IIIG.
StuH 42 should be the same as 10,5cm howitzer, probably with reduced range (?).

I checked yesterday and I think the StuG IV has -1 HA compared to the StuG IIIG
The artillery mode values are quite different.

For some reason the StuH 42 with its 10,5cm Howitzer has range 1, the StuG IV with the 75mm cannon range 2.
Not sure if my memory serves me right but this was apparently a mistake and might be patched in 1.05 already.

Longasc wrote:Not sure if my memory serves me right but this was apparently a mistake and might be patched in 1.05 already.

Speaking of memory...
We had already discussed this here:
viewtopic.php?p=272174#272174

Hm I never noticed that the StuG IV had a range of 2.

Hello fellow Pz corps Generals. New to the forum (been reading on it for a couple of months but not posting).

I too am very confused on StuG's role and preformances in general in this game. Dont get me wrong love the game but find StuG's to be....shall we say dissapointing. The roles assault StuG's had in ww2 was changed over time but mostly after 42 they served as either AT or replacements for panzers and had that role in many Pz divisions (SS Frundsberg is a very good example among many others). The thing is I dont see AG (assault Guns) preform that role at all in PzC game wich to me is very confusing. Granted its been a while since I played the old Pz general games wich this game is inspierd on. Nowdays I been playing Winspat 2 maybe thats why I find StuG's in this game to be more or less useless.
Not sure what role the devs have tried to aim after with them and frankly its begining to take its toll on me.
I am trying very hard to not only buy Jagdpanther or Elefant/Ferdinand when they come avaible (for rpg mainly). Its just so frustrating that they just arent up to par to my expectations (maybe thats whats wrong).

Oh, and while I am at it, where is the Brubärs, the different forms of jägers (skijägers and the motorized ones for ex?), Spec ops like Brandenburgers (later diveded into pnzergrenadiers or Skorzenys Commandos) ? Am I to picky perhaps, not sure but I miss a lot of units
wich for me is a big part of forming my own core Army (again rpg wise). Is there plans to implant some more units.

PS

I know the difference between the StuG roles like assault ones and the Howitzer versions.

Lamont wrote:Hello fellow Pz corps Generals. New to the forum (been reading on it for a couple of months but not posting).

I too am very confused on StuG's role and preformances in general in this game. Dont get me wrong love the game but find StuG's to be....shall we say dissapointing. The roles assault StuG's had in ww2 was changed over time but mostly after 42 they served as either AT or replacements for panzers and had that role in many Pz divisions (SS Frundsberg is a very good example among many others). The thing is I dont see AG (assault Guns) preform that role at all in PzC game wich to me is very confusing. Granted its been a while since I played the old Pz general games wich this game is inspierd on. Nowdays I been playing Winspat 2 maybe thats why I find StuG's in this game to be more or less useless.
Not sure what role the devs have tried to aim after with them and frankly its begining to take its toll on me.
I am trying very hard to not only buy Jagdpanther or Elefant/Ferdinand when they come avaible (for rpg mainly). Its just so frustrating that they just arent up to par to my expectations (maybe thats whats wrong).

Oh, and while I am at it, where is the Brubärs, the different forms of jägers (skijägers and the motorized ones for ex?), Spec ops like Brandenburgers (later diveded into pnzergrenadiers or Skorzenys Commandos) ? Am I to picky perhaps, not sure but I miss a lot of units
wich for me is a big part of forming my own core Army (again rpg wise). Is there plans to implant some more units.

PS

I know the difference between the StuG roles like assault ones and the Howitzer versions.

Sounds to me like you would enjoy the DLC campaigns quite a bit. Their extended nature really shines a spotlight on equipment that might otherwise not see use in the stock campaign. This should be especially be the case as the DLC move into Mid War (41-43) and the StuG becomes the best armed and armored unit available for taking on the Russian T-34/43s and KV1s.

The StuG also has a pretty importance place in multiplayer too, as of 1.04 they got a nice boost to their stats to make them more attractive while the 'super' units like the Jagdpanther and Elephant got big price increases.
This thread has some details on that:
viewtopic.php?t=29273

As for new units, it's generally a pretty big affair to get units officially added to the game, a lot of very high quality art work is required. Such a thing is entirely possible for expansion packs though, and of course there's always our custom modders and their work to enjoy.

I love STUGS! I also found them disappointing in the game. So I went to the Equipment Editor and made them a little more effective like they were in reality. Now my Stugs stand a decent chance and even an advantage sometimes in battle with the other armor provided there is infantry support nearby for close defense.

I almost exclusively play mid to late war games so the Stugs I modify are these varieties.

I mean, come on guys, how can you not love an AFV that had Aces like Bodo Spranz and Diddo Diddens?

historically the advantage of the assault gun was it was faster and cheaper to produce, no turret and associated mechanics. thus they were quicker to get out there to the front lines. Another advantage should be the low profile, most were about man height or lower, with the exception of the super big boys like Elephants and the Jag's. Downside was the limited firing arc due to no turret, but they could get thicker armour due to weight savings with no turret up top.
I believe the Brumbar (working off memory here as my tank books are in storage) was a specialty assault vehicle that brought a much needed heavy gun with massive armour into an urban assault situation (Stalingrad anyone) where normal tanks and SPG's could not survive flank attacks from the buildings on either side of the streets.

I have not really had a chance to try anything other than the Stug III in its arty role so far, with the DLC's thats all I have been playing so far. Guess we shall start to see them in the next DLC and see what they can really do.

It is important to remember, that the turretless concept did not have the disadvantages which it would have today.

Up to the 70s it was standard procedure for a tank not to fire while moving (see the tests of the S-Tank - Stridsvagn103, a cold war turretless tank).

I remember reading somewhere that turretless tanks get a initiative penalty of 3 when fighting a tank with turret, I find that quite excessive. I would understand a -1.


Apropos stats, just saw a british Comet tank in a scenario, and its stats are quite surprising. Better armour than a Panther G?
Really?

Hard Attack of 25 compared to the 19 of a Panther G and 21 of the Jagdtiger??


Seriously, while the british had nice ammo, 77mm are different from 128mm...

A good STUG driver could spin a STUG around on a dime in close combat. Lock one track and pull the other until the gunner or commander said halt. They were quick handling vehicles.

All the advantages outweigh the disadvantages and that is why I think they are not given appropriate lethal capacities in the game.

impar brought up some nice comparisons between StuG IV and StuH42 in another thread.

The StuG so far has the higher range (2), the StuH only 1. I found his argument quite convincing that it should be the other way round, would also make the IV more consistent with the StuG IIIB artillery StuGs.

Actually, I am not entirely sure StuG IV should be classed as a ART. It carried the same gun as the latters PzIV models.
In fact, and considering upgrades paths, I am more inclined to place all StuGs as AT and having switch modes to ART. Having them spread between ART (Stug IIIB + StuG IV) and AT (StuG IIIF, F/8 and G) is just weird. All of those carried guns from Panzers.

The StuH would be placed also in the AT class, but having a primary role of ART, or (better) placed in the ART class but inside the same family tree as the other SP ART. ART would then have towed field guns, rocket artillery (includes Wurfrahmen) and SP family trees.