Slitherine

Hi guys.
I have a very stupid question, but I need to ask it, because my friend doesn't agree with me, and torments me.

I have a BG of 4 French Men-at-arms (Knights, Heavily Armoured, Superior, Undrilled, Lancer, Swordsmen).
My friend has a BG of 8 English Longbowmen (Medium Foot, Protected, Average, Drilled, Longbow, Swordsman)(and they have already placed their sharp stakes!)
My Knights attacks.
So please can you tell me:
1. How many PoAs will French Knights have in Impact Phase against Longbowmen (with stakes).
2. How many PoAs will Longbowmen have in Impact Phase against French Knights. (Real melee PoAs and Support Shooting PoAs in separately).
And please, can you explain in steps how do you assign this PoAs to one and other side of impact.

Your answers will give us a great picture of how determine PoAs in right way.

P.S. Sorry for my English.

Boris_Kvarc wrote:Hi guys.
I have a very stupid question, but I need to ask it, because my friend doesn't agree with me, and torments me.

I have a BG of 4 French Men-at-arms (Knights, Heavily Armoured, Superior, Undrilled, Lancer, Swordsmen).
My friend has a BG of 8 English Longbowmen (Medium Foot, Protected, Average, Drilled, Longbow, Swordsman)(and they have already placed their sharp stakes!)
My Knights attacks.
So please can you tell me:
1. How many PoAs will French Knights have in Impact Phase against Longbowmen (with stakes).
2. How many PoAs will Longbowmen have in Impact Phase against French Knights. (Real melee PoAs and Support Shooting PoAs in separately).
And please, can you explain in steps how do you assign this PoAs to one and other side of impact.

Your answers will give us a great picture of how determine PoAs in right way.

P.S. Sorry for my English.

OK - in the glossary (I know it's a great place to put it), but attacking over stakes means that the enemy are not considered to be in the open. So the answer to the first question is none - the Knights get no PoA's against the Longbowmen.

The Longbowmen get a single PoA for the PO's. However, the overhead shooting get's a minus PoA for shooting at an enemy in Combat (they use shooting factors so don't get any plus for the PD's)

So for each file, the Knights are on a minus and the Longbowmen have two dice on a plus (from the front rank) and one dice on a minus from the overhead shooting.

In answer to your next quesion, yes, the Knights do have to test not to charge.

Is it really true?!
You mean that Knighs finally get "no PoA" in Impact phase against Longbowmen protected by the stakes? And Londbowmen gets "+" for stakes?
So finally Knights will get "-" (5+ to hit) and longbowmen will have "+"(4+ to hit), right?
It is terrible! How to crack this defense?

Boris_Kvarc wrote:Is it really true?!
You mean that Knighs finally get "no PoA" in Impact phase against Longbowmen protected by the stakes? And Londbowmen gets "+" for stakes?
So finally Knights will get "-" (5+ to hit) and longbowmen will have "+"(4+ to hit), right?
It is terrible! How to crack this defense?

Don't get in front of them, that would be a good start and maybe dismounting the knights as the french did.

Boris_Kvarc wrote:Is it really true?!
You mean that Knighs finally get "no PoA" in Impact phase against Longbowmen protected by the stakes? And Londbowmen gets "+" for stakes?
So finally Knights will get "-" (5+ to hit) and longbowmen will have "+"(4+ to hit), right?
It is terrible! How to crack this defense?

Well, they aren't cheap (longbow with stakes) and aren't guaranteed to be deployed either.

ravenflight wrote:

Boris_Kvarc wrote:Is it really true?!
You mean that Knighs finally get "no PoA" in Impact phase against Longbowmen protected by the stakes? And Londbowmen gets "+" for stakes?
So finally Knights will get "-" (5+ to hit) and longbowmen will have "+"(4+ to hit), right?
It is terrible! How to crack this defense?

Well, they aren't cheap (longbow with stakes) and aren't guaranteed to be deployed either.

True needing a 7 without a general near or a 5 with a general attached to unit

david53 wrote:

ravenflight wrote:

Boris_Kvarc wrote:Is it really true?!
You mean that Knighs finally get "no PoA" in Impact phase against Longbowmen protected by the stakes? And Londbowmen gets "+" for stakes?
So finally Knights will get "-" (5+ to hit) and longbowmen will have "+"(4+ to hit), right?
It is terrible! How to crack this defense?

Well, they aren't cheap (longbow with stakes) and aren't guaranteed to be deployed either.

True needing a 7 without a general near or a 5 with a general attached to unit

david53, I'm sorry, but can you paraphrase your post, I can't get the meaning.

Stakes require a CMT to deploy - so they are not guaranteed to be there.
Historically French Knights only charged mounted into archers with stakes once. After that they dismounted.

Boris_Kvarc wrote:Is it really true?!
You mean that Knighs finally get "no PoA" in Impact phase against Longbowmen protected by the stakes? And Londbowmen gets "+" for stakes?
So finally Knights will get "-" (5+ to hit) and longbowmen will have "+"(4+ to hit), right?
It is terrible! How to crack this defense?

You thought is the same as the thought of the real French commanders - they did not believe the longbow would win - but the longbow won.

It is true for Impact. For melee though the Knights are + for better armour, the longbow are + for the stakes so they fight on = POA and the knights are superior. A small chance.

To place the stakes the longbow must pass a complex move test, needing 7 on two dice. They may fail. If a general is in command range they will have a +1, if the general is with the longbows another +1.

To place the stakes the longbows must pass the CMT and spend the whole move standing still. So perhaps you can ride in a different direction?

The way that the French thought to fight against this tactic historically was:

- dismount (stakes do not help against foot)
- charge the English before the stakes are deployed (difficult)
- outflank the English

Oho! Thank you very much!
Where can I find the rule (page number) which is oblige to pass CMT to place stakes?

Boris_Kvarc wrote:Oho! Thank you very much!
Where can I find the rule (page number) which is oblige to pass CMT to place stakes?

Don't have rules with me but it is under the speical rules for Portable obstacles section.

hazelbark wrote:

Boris_Kvarc wrote:Oho! Thank you very much!
Where can I find the rule (page number) which is oblige to pass CMT to place stakes?

Don't have rules with me but it is under the speical rules for Portable obstacles section.

Yes, I've already found...

Boris_Kvarc wrote:Oho! Thank you very much!
Where can I find the rule (page number) which is oblige to pass CMT to place stakes?

Ahh, this very much sounds like a situation where your opponent clearly only won because he cheated

No, he didn't know this rule as me. So, we are guilty of ignorance together.
And I want to ask you another question. Will the Knights become Disordered (lose dices in combat ect...) when attacking stakes (because stakes is not open ground)?

Boris_Kvarc wrote:Will the Knights become Disordered (lose dices in combat ect...) when attacking stakes (because stakes is not open ground)?

No. The effect of the stakes is enough

No, the knights are not disordered by the stakes. It's not that the stakes count as bad going, it's that they count as Fortifications against mounted, and theat means that you don't get POAs that only apply in open terrain.

Yes, I thought as much.
Thanks you all guys very much!