Slitherine

XXXXXX --Medium foot BG
XXXXXX

........YYYYY --Light Foot
,,,,,,,,YYYYY


.............LHLH
.............LHLH

OK XX is a Med foot BG which is friendly to YY
Enemy LH charges YY which rolls short on its evade.
The first two files of YY just do get both rannks into XX on the short evade.

Which bases of YY are moved to the rear of XX?
The entire BG or just the bases which interpenetrate XX?

Gino
SMAC

I'd like to attempt an answer.

Page 22 says that BG bases cannot be separated except where it is specifically allowed by the rules. The errata for the picture on page 59 says that the disrupted unit should be shifted back in block and not as the picture shows. This is even though the 2 stands on the right were not burst through by shock troops.

Now go to page 48, 6th bullet, 1st column which discusses BGs legally interpenetrating friends. First, the LF are allowed 2 extra MU to completely pass through friends. If the extra 2 MUs is not sufficient to clear the MF, then the next '--In all other cases' applies. All bases that reach the BG being interpenetrated are moved all the way through and placed on the far side. Since both ranks reached, you would move the entire BG to the far side of the MF.

Now, what if the 2nd rank of LF did not reach the MF? Then the first rank would be placed beyond and the 2nd rank would be placed in contact with the MF on the near side--one of the few legal separations of a BG. The unit would then be DISORDERED until the interpenetration is completed in a subsequent turn.

From your diagram, it looks like the 2 files of LF on the right do not interpenetrate the MF. So if only the first rank reaches the MF, would the entire 2nd rank stay in block in front of the MF? Seems logical, but I can't find anything in the rules to cover this situation.

Interesting.

I was actually thinking that the left hand 2 files would be placed beyond and the right hand files would be left where they moved to as only the files interpenetrating could gain the extra movement.

I assumed in my description that both ranks reached but that not all files interpenetrated.

Gino
SMAC

The evade rule section references the Interpenetration section which only adresses what to do when one rank reached but thhe second does not. I do not find a reference to what happens when one side of files interpepentrate but the other side does not.

The BG configuration section lists "Compulsary Movements" as an exception to BG formation rules and an evade is compulsary in most cases when a skirmisher is charged by a non--skirmisher.

Gino
SMAC

kal5056 wrote: I was actually thinking that the left hand 2 files would be placed beyond and the right hand files would be left where they moved to as only the files interpenetrating could gain the extra movement.

So are you saying that a BG would split and say bases would be lets say 3 MU apart and not touching in any way shape or form?

kal5056 wrote:

I was actually thinking that the left hand 2 files would be placed beyond and the right hand files would be left where they moved to as only the files interpenetrating could gain the extra movement.


So are you saying that a BG would split and say bases would be lets say 3 MU apart and not touching in any way shape or form?

Yes that is correct.

You have to read Page 22 which says, and I quote: "The arrangement of the bases in a BG can change, but they always move together as a group. The bases cannot be separated, except where this is specifically allowed by the rules"

The rules do not say that you can split the left half that interpenetrates from the right half that does not. The BG either interpenetrates another BG or it does not. Movement distance limitations and bonus's have to affect the entire BG and not individual stands. Also, 'Interpenetrations' on page 48 refer to the BG receiving the extra movement, not individual stands.

You may want to catch the LF but the rules are written so that LF can operate in front of heavier troops and then retreat through them when the going gets tough.

You have to read Page 22 which says, and I quote: "The arrangement of the bases in a BG can change, but they always move together as a group. The bases cannot be separated, except where this is specifically allowed by the rules"

The rules do not say that you can split the left half that interpenetrates from the right half that does not. The BG either interpenetrates another BG or it does not. Movement distance limitations and bonus's have to affect the entire BG and not individual stands. Also, 'Interpenetrations' on page 48 refer to the BG receiving the extra movement, not individual stands.

You may want to catch the LF but the rules are written so that LF can operate in front of heavier troops and then retreat through them when the going gets tough.

I don't have the rules with me so that I can find the relevant bit. However that is not how it is played.

If the file doesn't interpenetrate, the bases don't get the extra movement (in that phase) so they are more likely to be caught.

hazelbark wrote:

kal5056 wrote: I was actually thinking that the left hand 2 files would be placed beyond and the right hand files would be left where they moved to as only the files interpenetrating could gain the extra movement.

So are you saying that a BG would split and say bases would be lets say 3 MU apart and not touching in any way shape or form?

Yep, I say that the evade and interpenetration is one of the Compulsory movements which is a listed exception to BG formation on page 22.

If you want your Lights to be able to use your formed troops as a barrier then keep them all in front of the formed troops. if not you could do something silly like this:

MFMFMFMF
MFMFMFMF
...............LFLFLFLFLFLFLF
..............LFLFLFLFLFLFLF

And then evade the whole bg (with extra movement) through the MF

Gino
SMAC

I don't have the rules with me so that I can find the relevant bit. However that is not how it is played.

You may play it differently but that is not how it is written. Once again I call attention to the errata for the picture on page 59. The foot are burst through by shock troops and must move back to make room. Only 2 files are burst through and the picture only shows those 2 files as being moved back. The official errata says that the 3rd file must also move back because the entire BG is shifted in block.

In this evade situation the BG is not split by those that will actually interpenetrate and those files that will miss the MF entirely. Rather the LF is separated by those that reach the MF and those that do not (page 48 Interpenetrations-since this is a legal interpenetration). So you cannot end up with this situation (#1):

......LL
......LL
MMMMLL
MMMMLL

M = MF, L = LF

You could end up with this situation (#2) if the 2nd rank didn't reach:

.......LL
MMMM
MMMMLL
.......LLLL

or (#2a) which would be my preference for displaying the stands:

.......LLLL
MMMM
MMMM
.......LLLL

I can't find anything in the rules that specifies how to split them in this example.
Situation #1 is not consistent with the RAW and amended in the errata.

If anyone can find anything in the rules that is different than what I've just diagrammed, I'd be grateful for page references.

bbotus wrote:

I don't have the rules with me so that I can find the relevant bit. However that is not how it is played.

You may play it differently but that is not how it is written. Once again I call attention to the errata for the picture on page 59. The foot are burst through by shock troops and must move back to make room. Only 2 files are burst through and the picture only shows those 2 files as being moved back. The official errata says that the 3rd file must also move back because the entire BG is shifted in block.

What you say may well be correct. However, I don't think it's relevant. Those are the rules for BGs being burst through by chargers,. Interpenetration by eveaders is a different part of the rules. They are different. For example, in the former the group being burst through can be moved; they can't in interpenetration.

What you say may well be correct. However, I don't think it's relevant. Those are the rules for BGs being burst through by chargers,. Interpenetration by eveaders is a different part of the rules. They are different. For example, in the former the group being burst through can be moved; they can't in interpenetration.

Your good with the rules. I'd appreciate some page references. Here is what I see:

Page 67, EVADE MOVES, 1st column, 1st bullet says, "If an evading BG encounters any obstructions, the following rules apply: - It interpenetrates friends if allowed to do so. (See interpenetration)." To me, that says interpenetration rules apply.

And I'm assuming you mean that a BG can't move if it is not allowed to interpenetrate another BG that has partially interpenetrated it. Of course, if the interpenetrating unit fully clears the 1st unit, then the 1st unit can move (page 48 ).