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Spoils of War (beta2 - scenario 8)

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:28 pm
by charonjr
Spoils of War - Field Marshal - previous DV

Starting with 2400 prestige, down to 1810 after repairs.

Nice counterattack at turn 10 from the south of Brest, but the AI charging ahead with trucked artillery looks like a bad idea to me.

And the attack by the KV-2 at turn 15 is pure hell (lost a Sturmpanzer and 1 aux), but by turn 16 I had him out of ammunition by attcking him. At the same time I destroyed the Soviet infantry guarding the last objective. Just 2 infantry and a toothless KV remained now.

By turn 21 the KV surrendered, with 3HP left... ;)

Except for the 2 (mainly the 2nd) counterattacks this scenario was fairly easy, but the second attack by the 3 tanks and the infantry surely had a very good punch. DV at 21/21 (won at 16/21) with 1930 prestige.

CharonJr

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:45 pm
by charonjr
Actually I am a bit worried about the "economics" for this scenario.

In going directly to Norway after getting a DV a Warsaw I would have started with 1810 prestige after replacements, after Spoils of War I have 1840 prestige despite taking fairly light losses (at least considering what could have happened with the 2nd counterattack).

Yes, some of my units gained a bit of XP (not that mayn since most are at the cap anyway), but on the other hand I think you can pretty much expect to lose at least 1 units and its XP here.

I think the prestige gain for Spoils of War should be higher to make up for that KV-2 rampaging through your units. Maybe +250 prestige to make up for a fairly likely loss of a second unit.

CharonJr

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:53 pm
by Horseman
charonjr wrote:Actually I am a bit worried about the "economics" for this scenario.

In going directly to Norway after getting a DV a Warsaw I would have started with 1810 prestige after replacements, after Spoils of War I have 1840 prestige despite taking fairly light losses (at least considering what could have happened with the 2nd counterattack).

Yes, some of my units gained a bit of XP (not that mayn since most are at the cap anyway), but on the other hand I think you can pretty much expect to lose at least 1 units and its XP here.

I think the prestige gain for Spoils of War should be higher to make up for that KV-2 rampaging through your units. Maybe +250 prestige to make up for a fairly likely loss of a second unit.

CharonJr
THen again its not just the XP - you get kills here too which all adds up to more heros.....I'm only 2 scenarios away from this one myself so will be able to comment slightly better once I've played it!

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:16 pm
by nikivdd
Spoils of war - Colonel level

This time it was not an Austrian wals for my troops against a tame enemy but a red army advancing, counter-attacking and putting up a stiff resistance.
The KV tank was the toughest nut to crack, eliminating a few of the aux units but my stuka's gave him hell. I pounded it with my 4 artillery pieces, attacked to deprive it of ammo and then went for the kill.
The first version i didn't like at all, but now the scenario improved tremendously and was really great to play.
I finished in 18/21 with only 186 PP left. I don't think i will be able to upgrade much in the first norwegian scenario.
Perhaps those who play this scenario should get an extra prestige award or a Russian gift unit? :roll:

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:19 pm
by deducter
I like your suggestion of getting a Russian gift unit. I vote for one of those Russian recon cars, which are surprisingly powerful, despite their low-ammo count.

On the one hand, I think this should be DV only. On the other hand, it was absolutely brutal on Manstein just to get MV. Hmm, I have no problem with not being able to get the gift unit on Manstein, so DV it is.

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:27 pm
by Xitax
I have to say I like the idea of getting some kind of reward for DV this scenario - a little bonus of some kind. A Russian unit might be cool because you have no other access to them, but only some prestige doesn't interest me much. Even on Colonel level I ended this scenario with less prestige than I started it with; after I had finished it I wondered to myself why I even bothered with it as I was worse off afterwards (aside from being a self-admitted completist, that is).

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:12 pm
by charonjr
I like the idea about either getting or capturing a Soviet armored car as an additional reward :)

CharonJr

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:36 pm
by Horseman
Just finished spoils of war on Colonel level - have more prestige at the end than the start...thugh I do like the idea of some captured Russian eqipment

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:48 pm
by Razz1
What's up with the KV-2 ?

Completely ahistorical. Oct 6th 1939 and a KV-2!

Not even one panzer III.

This is pure fantasy and we need to fix this.

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:38 pm
by El_Condoro

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:16 pm
by Kerensky
Razz1 wrote:What's up with the KV-2 ?

Completely ahistorical. Oct 6th 1939 and a KV-2!

Not even one panzer II.

This is pure fantasy and we need to fix this.
So buy a Panzer II, who's fault is that? :roll:

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:26 am
by Razz1
Sorry, fat finger. Pz 3

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:41 am
by Kerensky
Ah, that's another story. Because the DLC shares the same equipment file as the base game, and the Panzer III isn't available for purchase in October of 1939, there are no Panzer IIIs in this scenario either.

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:34 am
by monkspider
I did my second playthrough of this mission, and as much as I loved it the first time, I think I enjoyed it even more this time. Just a very interesting matchup, the 1939 Soviets vs the 1939 Germans. The flow of the battle is very good too. The way things build up to the showdown at Brest is very well done. I got a decisive with three turns left.

All of that said, I do believe there is something to some of the posts earlier on about how this mission leaving you in worse shape than you would be for just going straight to Norway. Your units get beat up in this one, there is no way around that. This battle is a slugfest. I managed to avoid losing any core units (I did lose an aux Panzerjager though), but I did have to spend a fair amount on reinforcements. My units were long ago at the experience cap and I would have had more prestige for the Norwegian campaign if I had skipped this battle. This is especially unfortunate because when you reach Norway, you start to get some interesting upgrades for the first time (I still think there should be more upgrade choices during the Polish campaign).

I think either a prestige bonus or (even better) a Russian gift unit would be very much in line.

Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:44 pm
by kjeld111
I admit it freely, I am not a great player like many people here :). I am used to play games in "normal" mode, as an example, I completed my first campaign on colonel in the base game with a more or less balanced MV/DV scoresheet, winning Moscow 43 and Overlord decisively to end the game (Fortress Europa !).

That been said, as an average player, this scenario, while definitely fun, in a challenging way, made me scratch my head a bit. I have hesitated at the start to play it or go on to Norway - the previous campaign in Poland was so immersive, almost in a "roleplaying" sort of way that this more abstract "what if" scenario felt a little bit off for me, and maybe the clearly "optional" part had this effect ...maybe, in retrospect, it made me hold back, so I didn't give my best ... but in the end, I gave up, reloaded my Warsaw end turn save, and took my leave toward Scandinavia.

Basically, and many people already gave that feedback, but I wanted to highlight my point of view as your "average gamer", while the scenario is completely doable (I stopped at Brest while grinding away the infamous juggernaut - would have no doubt DV'd it), fun (really) because of the challenge, and the even match up - at that point, I had lost several cores (+1 SE, + countless aux), most of my experienced troops that I had nurtured in Poland where emergency-refitted with green troops, and realized that the optional scenario would have resulted in a battered and weary force on the way to Norway (playing on Colonel). Even if the victory gave tons of prestige, a lot of experience was irremediably lost.

I am perfectly OK with hard scenarios, designed to make you fight for your cores, as mandatory scenarios in a campaign when it makes sense and when the rest of the campaign is balanced around this (Overlord, Bagration ...). I think this map is intriguing and challenging, with a great basic premise : a balanced Ger vs Sov 39 matchup, great concept for a scenario map. I just feel it doesn't work (for me) as an optional, bonus scenario in a campaign.

I still think, it is a good scenario, and that it should be kept - as I can see in the feedback, many experienced players like it (I did actually like it - I just didn't want to advance into Norway with my mess of a core). I just want to stress that it is good that you can opt out of it (maybe the difficulty could be stressed a bit more in the briefing note, so that "newbies" like me do not wander into it by mistake and without knowing what they are signing up to :p ).

Thinking about this scenario, I played a bit of Heroes and Might and Magic 6 (not quite as great as HOMM3 was, but still very good), and ran into the Colosseum building in one of the maps. Basically, while many of the "random" battles in this game are designed to be in your advantage, because it is of the utmost importance that you lose as few troops are possible to be able to fight the "important" battles (enemy heroes and towns for example), this building pits you against very challenging odds, in a mock battle, where you are expected to lose a lot of troops and give all you have got. But if you win (or lose), your troops are restored (it was a mock battle after all), you don not get experience for enemies you vainquished (for the same reason), and get a little bonus for having won the challenge.
Could maybe something like this work with this scenario ? After all, there is no declaration of war between Russia and Germany at this point - no one wants to lose troops and material.