Slitherine

I have come across this message flashing "Neutralise" while bombing a city hex. There appears to be a white flag but the target unit fires back anyway. Its happened a few times but I don't understand what it actually means.

The bomber has removed the ownership of the flag which means it can't be used to place new units until it is recaptured. This is aside from any effects it does to resident units.

Thanks for the clarification, El Condoro.

No probs. Actually, does anyone know if a flag that has been neutralised and then 'recaptured' gives the normal prestige bonus? It shouldn't IMO but I haven't tested it. A unit on a neutralised flag will regain control of it at the beginning of the next turn (another turn still before it can start placing units) but I am wondering if it will get an extra 50 or 100 prestige points, too.

jaggy wrote:I have come across this message flashing "Neutralise" while bombing a city hex. There appears to be a white flag but the target unit fires back anyway. Its happened a few times but I don't understand what it actually means.

If the city contains a unit (infantry, AT, tank) that survives the level bombing then at the start of its turn, the city reverts to its owner. In this case it can be a bit difficult to understand what the point is.

In this case, since the flag changed hands (even briefly) the city is considered newly captured. This means it can't be used to deploy purchased units any longer (not until two turns later, anyway).

While this ability is a cool idea I can't say I see its inclusion as any kind of necessary. Since you can't depend on neutralizing cities (it's only a small percentage chance after all), and that they quickly become operational again (since important cities tend to be occupied) you can't plan strategies around this concept.

In the end I look at it as bells and whistles. Probably a pet feature of one of the programmers, who probably should have spent the time and effort elsewhere. But now it's in I guess we'll file it in the "nice touch" department...!

El_Condoro wrote:No probs. Actually, does anyone know if a flag that has been neutralised and then 'recaptured' gives the normal prestige bonus? It shouldn't IMO but I haven't tested it. A unit on a neutralised flag will regain control of it at the beginning of the next turn (another turn still before it can start placing units) but I am wondering if it will get an extra 50 or 100 prestige points, too.

Actually, I would be surprised if it didn't, since you get prestige for each conquered flag once, even if you were the original owner (lost it to your opponent, and then re-conquered it). I believe the white flag is treated like any other flag, and that a city neutralized is treated like any other flag change. But I haven't tested it either, no.

Related to this (and I assume you already know this, El): In scenarios where you're sent to rescue an ally (such as when a German task force is dispatched to help out Italians or Romanians), it's important to understand that if you allow the enemy (the Russians, say) to conquer one of your Italian (Romanian etc) flags, then you can re-conquer it with a German unit, thus creating a German flag, and a city hex which can deploy German units.

Since the units of the main combatants (Germany, USSR, UK and USA) are much better and more varied than those of their allies, this can give you a considerable upper hand - if the scenario otherwise assumed all prestige had to be spent on reinforcements or allied units only.

If you own the flag at the start, then loose it, you do get prestige for recapturing it only once.
It would be great for multi-player as flags and strategy would actually mean something.

Unfortunately for single player, the AI can not cope with this and a player can easily exploit this parameter setting.
Just move out of a city and let the AI move in. Then kill it and capture for extra prestige.
Repeat again.

Razz wrote:If you own the flag at the start, then loose it, you do NOT get prestige for recapturing it.

That is not correct. Even if you own the flag at the beginning, if you lose it and then retake it you will get 50/100 points. It is a once-off (if you lose it and retake it again you won't get another 50/100) but it's a little strange IMO and not how PG2 did it.

I remember testing it earlier and it didn't work that way.
So, I re-checked and you are correct.

I'd be interested to know what the reason for the game doing it that way is.

El_Condoro wrote:I'd be interested to know what the reason for the game doing it that way is.

Probably the prosaic reason is that it was the straight-forward implementation; the simplest way to code it.

Have an array for each side called "Have I handed out prestige for this flag yet?" set to false, and when you capture a flag you check the value - if its false you get the prestige and the value is changed to true.

Any other approach would mean more coding, even if not by much... for instance, the "bug" we're discussing now would require one extra loop setting YOUR flags' values to true already at scenario start

Just wondering... Can you send a level bomber to a unoccupied city and make it neutral(white flag) by attacking it, there by making it unavailable for your opponent to purchase new equipment and deploy it at that city? I haven't had the opportunity to try, mainly because I rely on dive bomber and ground attack aircraft.

Tima wrote:Just wondering... Can you send a level bomber to a unoccupied city and make it neutral(white flag) by attacking it, there by making it unavailable for your opponent to purchase new equipment and deploy it at that city? I haven't had the opportunity to try, mainly because I rely on dive bomber and ground attack aircraft.

IIRC that is possible.

Tima wrote:Just wondering... Can you send a level bomber to a unoccupied city and make it neutral(white flag) by attacking it, there by making it unavailable for your opponent to purchase new equipment and deploy it at that city? I haven't had the opportunity to try, mainly because I rely on dive bomber and ground attack aircraft.

Yes, you can attack an empty city with a level bomber if the weather allows it. Based on the bomber strength, experience and weather conditions, there is a chance to neutralize it. If the city is an objective, the enemy will lose prestige instead.

It appears that PzC did not take into account an additional parameter that existed in the original Panzer General: level bombers where either light or heavy. Germany had only light level bombers, while B-17 for example was set as a heavy level bomber. Heavy level bomber had a higher efficiency.