Slitherine

I don't love Steam, and I don't hate Steam.

I have read a lot of posts about Steam, and I occasionally wonder about some of the fanboyism and some of the hate.
I often wonder if some of the praise is entirely genuine, and I also sometimes wonder if some of the bias is completely legit.

People WILL exaggerate or lie sometimes.

But as a result of liking Civilization V I have been using Steam since it launched that game. Nothing bad has happened to my computer.
My computer seems to run just fine, even with Steam insisting it run in the background, and my laptop I play it on is hardly going to be mistaken as powerful.
I have not had real trouble in playing solo, and in playing multi player.

I have additionally found that games are often very nicely visible to the market thanks to Steam. And the prices are hard to complain about.

I have heard comments from all sorts of types of gamers.
I know the rabid downloaders that never pay for anything, and what they think of Steam's anti theft.
I know of the sorts that gladly pay for everything.
I know the cheap skates that won't pay full price for anything, and I know the sorts that will claim that gladly wish to support the company that made the game, and thus don't gripe about pricey niche games like our wargames.

I've heard from the super geeks that live and breath computer tech. As well as merely hard core gamers that don't know much about their computers and consoles, they just love the heck out of using them.

I've heard almost all I think that needs to be heard to some extent, and some of my views when I first learned of Steam, have simply not managed to survive the test of time. In some cases I have been totally wrong.

Here is I suppose the ultimate challenge I put to the people that essentially make the choices, the owners.
I don't expect answers to private matters that are none of my business, but, I ask the questions so that you might ponder them and see if you can provide the answers to at least yourselves.

Take Battle Academy as an example.
How many sales have you had to date (today) including the base game, and both expansions (and yes I know Market Garden is still new).
Now of course the next question, how much cash is in your pocket as a result.
I have NO idea how many sales you have made and how many of those were no hard copy requested sales.

But I do know this. I have witnessed the sales of what looked like total schlock on Steam, for prices one might think were a bad joke grade insult to the owner of the program, and that owner was still laughing all the way to the bank.
Because, 1 million sales of say 1 dollar a game, is likely to be more profitable than is the norm in wargaming (I can't claim to have a lot of experience with wargaming profitability since the late 70s, but I do have some background).

I have to wonder, what would the long term result be, of Slitherine releasing just 1 game on Steam, and in the process getting massive exposure to people who are not currently wargamers. What would the profit be like, if Battle Academy had been put on Steam at say 5 bucks. Yes I know, 5 bucks seems like a rip off, I understand. But if the superior exposure of Steam were to generate 5 times the sales, that actually comes out numerically to be likely better than selling it at the normal price of 40 bucks through our usual routes. And in the end, I have to assume Slitherine, as a business, is in this to MAKE money, while making wargames.

I was ok buying it at the listed price. Didn't grip a second. Colour me a totally convinced customer, that I wanted the game that much.

My only concern, is, the wargaming hobby is NOT making ANY inroads to make non wargamers maybe into wargamers, by showing them something they might never have considered all because they just never get exposed to our hobby to begin with.

I am not 'thinking' this hobby 'might be dying', I am just positive when I reach 70, in 20 years, it is likely OVER. Because this expert happens to know, it is always my age group that is in question here. I hang out on a few gaming sites and a few sites devoted to other hobbies cliche to the young. I am fully aware of what they know and think of our wargames and wargaming. They think nothing, as they are largely unaware we exist.
No there is no new blood showing up in numbers that matter. Because no one is appealing to them.

Steam is simply one useful option, that might be useful is a few ways not normally meant to be the main reason for being there, but useful all the same.
If 1 kid in 1000 were to check out Battle Academy because it 'looked interesting' that would almost certainly be a really beneficial influx of new gamers.
Our games are just as fun today, as the were in 1975. Take that however you wish, but it worked on me when I was 15 eh.
I was not the predominant sort of kid at school. I can accept that.
But I was a teen then, and the sale was made to a teen then.
Today though, teens are simply not being drawn in at all.
Show me one decent example if you think I am wrong.

I am not here to TELL any of the developers how to spend their money, or how to make it.
I am just saying, if you don't break out of the current mold, your company likely retires when you do.
No new blood will mean the hobby just doesn't outlive my demographic.
Either we embrace the new methods, or we embrace eventual retirement of a style of gaming.

Interesting post DSGamer. Your points are well-taken. Funny you should mention Steam, as I posted my rants on them in the general discussion section a while back. I absolutely loathe that service. I changed my e-mail address (as I occasionally do for security/privacy reasons) and as a result lost access to all the Civ5 add-ons I had purchased through them. Their customer support has to be the worst in the world, which is unconscionable considering how when you cut to the chase Steam is not really a free service. Above all, however, with verification engines like Steam they are making the assumption that everyone is a criminal, and I find this offensive. Although I agree that Slitherine needs to bring great games like Battlefield Academy to a wider audience, I'm not at all convinced that Steam is the answer. In any event I think Steam represents a very bad trend in gaming, as they can be a serious inconvenience to the honest customer. It's a typical case of how when a company gets big they tend to lose sight of the customers purchasing their products and services. Hope this never happens to Slitherine (losing sight of the customers). Finally, if you do a search on 'Steam Sucks', you will find miles and miles of posts from irate customers. BTW, Steam's creator Valve Software has only one claim to fame; the very overrated 'Half Life' series.

On a plus note, I would add that I e-mailed the BA demo link to all my gamer friends. There's still a lot to be said for word of mouth.

Yes the email hell is one of the problems I have heard, and I concur, it is not a feather in their cap.

I picked a Hotmail account a loooooong time ago when I moved from being a Bell customer as I discovered the nuisance of switching a provider and losing access to a provider given email, and now I never use emails tied to a service provider for anything. Not that Hotmail can't somehow go down the drain.

As for customer support, well I think lousy customer support is actually the norm with good support being actually the fluke.

With the exception of Matrix Games and Slitherine (before the merge as well), and perhaps my current ISP (Teksavvy) I'd need a long time thinking of anyone else I was interested in praising. With luck I never experience this particular hassle.

I'm no fan of all eggs in one basket, although there are some that actually demand it (with Steam that is). Ideally, perfection would be having access to hear, with the convenience of Steam, just not dependent on only Steam if there was any trouble. In other words, I'd prefer to be registered in such a way I could come HERE if I needed help.

I have been told of some VERY good things about Steam though, they are not all bad. They have been known to actually bail out some indie developers at Steam's expense. The program owner keeps 75% of the purchase price which I think is likely better than what you can expect by the time something is sold off the shelf in a retail chain shelf.

I know tooooo much about digital piracy. Frankly, I am willing to cut them some slack even when it irks me, if it makes the pirates life less satisfying.
Every game I have bought from Matrix Games, I have bought as an expensive digital download. I did it willingly as I think a Matrix Games/Slitherine title is usually easily worth the price. I'm not so willing to be so generous with a lot of mainstream titles though. But the truth is, Matrix Games/Slitherine titles, well their form of protection is not really all that good in one aspect. They are easily copied. What is really the truth, is their titles are so utterly complex, and so utterly detailed, and the games simply are not worth playing unproperly patched, and I suspect someone is aggressively out there killing off bogus serials in via the patches updates. That's just a very logical and believable guess though. The games are also sufficiently niche, that no one really has much interest in spreading them around. Not a slag, just the truth.
You can go on to just about any newsgroup, and find damn near nothing from Matrix Games/Slitherine, which to be honest, is both a nice thing, as well as I suppose an insult if you look at it the right way

Some times the best protection, is to just make a valid account mandatory to have any real use of the game. Battle Academy for instance, simply loses more than half of it's real worth if you remove the multi player. And for multi player you have to have a valid account.

I've read a lot of forums over the years, and a wisened gamer can usually spot the complainers that really are mainly complaining, because the anti theft is busting their balls

Recently Steam introduced a code sign in that really vexed me. The first three codes refused to work. It was seriously getting to me that day. But staff sorted it out ASAP I must admit. Now it simply doesn't bug me. Granted I don't reinstall the game too often either.

I am not sure I'd call it a bad trend. Actually, I think 'used games' is a bad trend to some extent. I am sure the game creators lose as much if not more funds from sales they never got to make as they do from theft. Not that it is illegal, or wrong, I just think it does nothing good for the guy that made the game. Maybe if the store sent the game maker a portion of the resale it wouldn't suck so much. We all know most retail stores make almost no great profit on new, they rely on used. It's because they buy them for a totally different profit level and resell them for damn near the same price as new. I see this a lot. New game 80 bucks and they might get a few bucks. Used game bought for 25 bucks, and sold for 70 bucks and they just made 35 bucks. It wouldn't kill them to sell for 70 make 25 bucks and give the creator 10. But they will no doubt whine how that is not possible.

It's not hard for businesses to lie any more than it is for private individuals though.

In the end though, Steam is all about the numbers.
I've been shown titles that were sold for almost nothing and went on to make millions.
I've been shown wargames that were considered 'successes' and then in time you learn the numbers of units moved, and you kinda wonder if the word 'success' has a unique meaning in wargaming

So in the end, we are left to ponder, safely from our PC, what WOULD happen is a wargame was sold via Steam for a fraction of the cost?
Some of the defenses I have seen in favour of the old ways, seem to sound too much like too many other industries that simply refuse to budge to move forward. And I must confess, I am usually fairly harsh when discussing them. I am brutally unsympathetic when discussing the film industry normally.

If Matrix Games/Slitherine placed one of their products on Steam and made millions, then I'd say ... "Excellent, Way to GO!"

Would I purchase their product via Steam ? .... Negative.

I prefer to stick my hand in the Horse's Mouth (Matrix Games/Slitherine) then in the Horse's Ass (Steam).

Let Steam continue to pray on the younger generation who has but a few coins to spend on those "dollar games".
When the younger generation (point-and-click generation?) get's older, they can come join us ...

... The Wargame Cockroach ... Even the Worst Wargame Spray won't destroy our numbers!

This is not a "for" or "against" Steam post, just stating the facts:

I have about 120 games on Steam (yes, I am embarrassed). A good many are $2.00 specials, but there is also the entire TOW, Total War, Fallout, Men of War series, etc.

I think I have had one technical issue in the past last three years (fingers crossed), which was promptly addressed. This was a Steam issue. I have had no real game issues so far, so can't comment on that. My guess would be a lot slower than Slitherine customer support. Patching support is much slower than Slitherine, of course.

Were I to pass on (with some notice), all these games would disappear into the ether. Meaning, I have no hard assets like a CD to give to a friend or fellow gamer. I could give someone my computer and password, though.

Were my computer hard drive to expire (I must get a back-up), I would lose uncountable games, mods, patches, from Matrix, Slitherine, Paradox, Battlefront. Re-installation would be a nightmare. I would be extremely screwed. With Steam, I'd just re-register my new computer and the downloading process would be a bit easier.

As an owner of most of the FoG series and all of BA, how would I feel to see a FoG "bundle" sale on Steam tomorrow--the entire FoG set for $14.99. I would not be happy for myself, but all those lucky new players...

I'm sure Matrix/Slitherine has considered this matter many times over. Personally, I hope they don't do it.

Edit: I got into such a rant I forgot the OP's point! Theatre of War's devs have already tested the waters. I wonder how they did? The only thing stopping Steam's growth would be a huge hack of their system or technical glitch. Wish I had stock in that company from Day #1 if it was public. They may be unstoppable.

I reinstall my OS sometimes out of boredom, sometimes out of an inability to understand what might be wrong with it and I figure reinstalling the OS is just the simpler solution.

The ole tech support solution of 'guess we gotta format and reinstall the OS' holds no power over me.

I learned a loooooong time ago how to burn to disc anything. My desktop holds all my dvd video collection, as I simply don't like waer on the physical drive and no matter how you try, the second you pick up a disc, you run the risk of scratching it or bending it or just about anything to it. I like back ups that are stored in a very safe place. I often have discs stacked in spindles or in cases for holding discs. No dust, no handling.

I have no need of buying a hard copy. My computer can do anything the machines making the ones that they would send me can do.
If I died tomorrow, well of course I won't need to care about a lot of things, including who gets access to my games.
I've made it clear to family though that my ASL is worth a LOT of money, and my models also. They can ditch them at their own peril.

I write everything down with something that equals obsessive I guess. If my home burned utterly to the ground, I suppose I might lose some stuff permanently.
It's nice that Matrix Games stores serials.

I think half of the wargames I have bought in the last 10 years, regardless of being great examples of the art, were likely a case of me buying it because I wanted it, even if I didn't need it hehe. Man, where was my head when I bought Gary's games? Not questioning their quality, just questioning my needing them. That 200 bucks could be helping me buy a tablet so I could more easily play Battle Academy which I actually DO play.

I think most of Steam is people that are used to buying in a modern manner.
I think over all, Matrix Games/Slitherine, may well be missing out on a large market. Because the old bugger crowd, that seems mired in the past, might well not be where the big money is.
I have no facts or figures to offer that asertion though. But one can't exist in a hobby for as long as I have, and not pick up on some things.

And a lot of Matrix Games/Slitherine titles (maybe more of Slitherines catalogue) could likely do quite well on the machines the young are used to.
I have Commander Europe at War for PC and the Nintendo DS. It plays great on either. It's clear some wargames are not at a loss on more modest machines.
In fact, a lot of gamers are rather fond of turn using strategy type combats inside of role games. It's not like gamers HATE our wargames. They just never encounter them much.

Steam could well be the equal of advertising, (which is never free and usually costs a bundle) that actually does the advertising, AND produces a sale (even if a smaller sum potentially). And there is no reason to automatically assume the sale is always going to not be profitable.

Steam DOES move considerable sums of sells.
I do kinda wonder what the Theatre of War numbers were too. Don't like the game personally, but that is opinion on my part.
I like Civilization V immensely, and there are some that don't.

Merr's post is enigmatic though.
He considers Matrix Games/Slitherine making a lot of money on Steam a reason to be happy, yet then follows up with stating he would refuse to buy that way.
The important detail Merr, is the younger generation is likely not coming. They are likely not going to join us. When we go, it is likely over.
Unless we finally break out of the rut and go looking for them.
They aren't looking for us.

Well said Merr. I couldn't agree more. The main lesson I learned with Steam is never, never, never buy anything directly from them. If you have to get a Steam game (and chances are most of the major releases by the big studios these days have been 'assimilated' by Steam), buy the retail boxed version so that you have the license in your hot little hands and not tied to your e-mail account. Fortunately I had the boxed version of Civ5 so it didn't get lost in the 'ether' when I changed e-mails/upgraded to a Falcon desktop, though again I did lose about $30 worth of Civ5 add-ons.

Rousseu - I said as much in my similar post in the General Discussion forum. That is, I rue the day when Slitherine/Matrrix goes this route. It may happen. After all, Norm Koger's small wargame company Stormeagle has their own more primitive version of Steam called StormPowered. The writing appears to be on the wall.

BTW, for you Starcraft fans out there, the same thing happened to Blizzard/battle.net. Back in the day when they were a comparatively small shop, they were great as they cared about the people playing their games. Now Blizzard has big budgets and bigger egos, and accountants reign supreme. Speaking of which, I loved the original Starcraft but thought Two was a rather pretentious and bloated disappointment.

DS - Although again you make some good points, not sure I agree with what you said about the hobby dying out. I got in to war games because in addition to being a gamer I'm a major history buff. Surely people like us will always be around. For example, I read a great book on the Russo-Japanese War, and being a gamer went online to look for a game on the subject.

I hate to say this everyone, but I'm surprised Pip or Junk haven't moved this one to the General Discussion forum. It's way off topic from discussing all the great things about Battlefield Academy. I would say though that I feel drawn to controversial topics like moths to the flame.

Exploited worker: "I can't make ends meet."
Leela: "Why not?"
Doctor Who: "Probably too many accountants and economists in the government."

Good point - it probably should sit in general discussions.

Was unsure there was much activity in here to be honest. Otherwise it would have come here first Ian.