Slitherine

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:19 am**

Is the restricted zone checked at the beginning of a unit's move (I am in or not in one this turn) or is it judged constantly? A unit wheeling at some point mid-wheel comes within 2" of a unit - does it have to immediately stop wheeling and obey rules for the Restriced Zone?

Thanks,
James

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:51 am**

We play that the RZ influence is continuous.

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:17 pm**

So in this situation:

If those units are facing directly up and down about 2" away... lined up perfectly to be side edge to side edge, niether can wheel away from each other? Once you move a couple millimeters your base will have gone from parralell with the enemy to being in front of him (in his Restricted Zone) meaning you are unable to finish that wheel and have to either stop or start wheeling back towards them... but since your front corner is not in front of him (it was perfectly parrallel and has now wheeled away from him) you cannot even wheel towards him as that would remove you from his RZ. This will occur if you are more than 2" away as well, just later in the wheel.

This feels icky, especially if I have another unit beside me who is staring at my opposite from this example. Essentially within a short distance a unit is locking down not only the unit lined up across from it but the unit to each side as those units aren't allowed to wheel.

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:48 pm**

So charge. Charges aren't affected by restricted zones.
Or don't let the enemy get so close to you.

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:56 pm**

I can't charge, I have allies fighting the enemy to the front already. Unless I'm blind (which is possible), being engaged doesn't turn off a restricted zone. I am not sure how one keeps the enemy away from his main battleline and also uses said battleline to crush his enemies in melee!

I'm not looking for a way not to fight, I am questioning one unit's ability to pin 3 who now have no way of responding to threatened flanks.

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:00 pm**

imanfasil wrote:So in this situation:

Could we have a better diagram?

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:04 pm**

Pretend you have two units that are in a battline together. Slide one forwards 2" and turn it 180. Your inside base edges would be touching still if you hadn't moved. That is the position of the two opposed units.

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:10 pm**

Then yes, if one of the BG began to wheel away it would become pinned at some point. If it began to wheel towards it would pin the other BG without itself being pinned.

Posted: **Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:23 pm**

If your one BG pinning 3 was something like this

._

Currently neither of the outer

are pinned

If either of the outer

wheel away they do not put their rear corners in front of

since the centre one is in the way and they shift to avoid friends.

If you moved the centre

first then the rear of the other

would go in front of

if they wheeled away but it would be difficult to get it within 2 MU.

Either of the outer

could wheel inwards to also pin

and not be opinned themselves

Friends facing down

Enemy facing up

Posted: **Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:45 am**

Do you really shift to avoid friends in the wheeling scenario? I thought it was just part of the rules that you can essentially wheel a corner through your own troops to allow wheeling out of line which would otherwise be impossible. I didn't think you would shift over and then wheel.

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 am**

zoltan wrote:We play that the RZ influence is continuous.

so a LH bg can't zap past an enemy unit if it encroaches within 2MU at some time on that move?

Muz

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:23 am**

That's how we play it.

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:48 am**

muz177 wrote:
zoltan wrote:We play that the RZ influence is continuous.
so a LH bg can't zap past an enemy unit if it encroaches within 2MU at some time on that move?

Muz

My reading of sentence one of the first bullet on page 74 is that if at any time an enemy BG enters the 2MU RA, it becomes affected by the RA constraints. I don't see anything in the RAW that suggests that RA test is only applied at the start or end of an enemy BG's movement.

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:17 am**

zoltan wrote: My reading of sentence one of the first bullet on page 74 is that if at any time an enemy BG enters the 2MU RA, it becomes affected by the RA constraints. I don't see anything in the RAW that suggests that RA test is only applied at the start or end of an enemy BG's movement.

Correct.

Posted: **Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:26 pm**

And stop to think a moment about what would happen "in real life".

It's okay for us to go with sword reach of the enemy without worryinh about being stabbed, because he couldn't stabus at the start of the turn and is therefore asleep whilst we move past him?

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:42 am**

imanfasil wrote:Do you really shift to avoid friends in the wheeling scenario? I thought it was just part of the rules that you can essentially wheel a corner through your own troops to allow wheeling out of line which would otherwise be impossible. I didn't think you would shift over and then wheel.

there is a specifc section on 1/2 base shifts to avoid friends in the lime green section.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:27 am**

the lime green section

which is page 45, 2nd bullet. A shift and wheel is OK but not a double wheel (last paragraph on the page).

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:20 pm**

hazelbark wrote:
imanfasil wrote:Do you really shift to avoid friends in the wheeling scenario? I thought it was just part of the rules that you can essentially wheel a corner through your own troops to allow wheeling out of line which would otherwise be impossible. I didn't think you would shift over and then wheel.
there is a specifc section on 1/2 base shifts to avoid friends in the lime green section.

There was a long thread about this some time ago. On many occassions the wheeling troops cannot shift.

If

tries to wheel out of the line it cannot shift so therefore cannot wheel according to the rules. Though all the authors agreed it should be able to, and seemingly forgot to put it in the FAQ. Unfortunate, since I was asked at the weekend.

Posted: **Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:47 pm**

What I remember is

has to be able to wheel far enough for the back corner to clear the friends to get out of the line. I probably remember the thread wrong but it keeps me out of that silly area where unrealistic base depths exert too much control over movement. Author intent is good enough for me.

Posted: **Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:00 am**

Found the thread on wheeling out of the center of a BL:
viewtopic.php?t=8919

Interesting, Phil, you were on the author side on that one.

rbodleyscott wrote:The rules don't say that troops can't wheel out of line. They are, in fact, completely silent on the subject.

The rules say they can't interpenetrate troops they can't interpenetrate. However, as Phil and Gozerius have pointed out, troops wheeling out of line don't impinge on the unit next to them, because each man in the end file does not start wheeling until he reaches the original front of the formation. Hence no interpenetration is in fact required.

Sure, you can argue that they do interpenetrate, because the troops are on rigid rectangular bases, but that would be silly, wouldn't it - because we know that wheeling troops don't stay in a rectangular formation, and in any case, the troops only fill a fraction of the base depth anyway.

I don't really see a problem as long as the BG clears the adjacent BG at the end of the move. (And that is only because it would cause issues to have BGs overlapping at the end of a move).
And Simon did post complete agreement.

A clarification would seem more appropriate than an erratum. (Assuming that Simon and Terry agree).

And Simon did post complete agreement.

And now I see how I came up with the use of the term 'silly' and 'unrealistic base depths'. Funny how the memory works.

Slitherine

Restricted Zone

Restricted Zone

restricted zone

Re: restricted zone

Re: restricted zone