Slitherine

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So E is enemy facing up. 2 is a legal flank charge that was a result of a pursuit in a JAP phase. C is a cav unit on the same side as E. It is at angle, but is NOT in a position to have a legal flank charge on 2.

So it is now side "E-C" impact phase. 2 is clearly counting as a charge on E. C wants to declare a regular charge. Now under normal circumstances it would have to hit the 3rd base of 2 and be treated as a front charge.

But at the beginning of the impact phase section it reads:

A charge which does not qualify as a flank or rear charge can still contact the flank edge of an enemy base, provided that it was not already in melee to its front.

So can the unit charge the first base of the 2 unit on the side? No front edge was available. If it could have hit the front edge or front corner would your view be different?

So where is the definiation of "melee"? It is a phase. If it said "close combat" then I think it would be clearer. No melee has occured yet. I opined that if I was the umpire i would say it could only hit the 3rd base. But their is a blurb in the front of the melee section, but doesn't seem to resolve this.

I'd think that since the flank charge isn't technically happening until the current impact phase combat hasn't yet been resolved so it would be legal to hit any base.

imanfasil wrote:I'd think that since the flank charge isn't technically happening until the current impact phase combat hasn't yet been resolved so it would be legal to hit any base.

Which is an optional interpretation I agree. But what is intent. So that would the unit C could charge front base. Thereby having more bases and declare the impact to be C vs 2. The unit being flank charged not engaged. Come conforming then C would move into overlap.

Real quesiton is what is author's intent and it could be clearer.

hazelbark wrote:

imanfasil wrote:I'd think that since the flank charge isn't technically happening until the current impact phase combat hasn't yet been resolved so it would be legal to hit any base.

Which is an optional interpretation I agree. But what is intent. So that would the unit C could charge front base. Thereby having more bases and declare the impact to be C vs 2. The unit being flank charged not engaged. Come conforming then C would move into overlap.

Real quesiton is what is author's intent and it could be clearer.

I think this interpretation could lead to all sorts of stuff that would really make things worse. i.e. if C could charge the flank of 2 then which base would fight? As the owner of the most number of bases in contact you could choose to not fight with the unit that had just been hit in the flank.

Since unit E would have turned a base the instant that C made contact, I would say since they are in front edge to front edge contact they count as being in melee, irrelevant of the fact that they have not yet fought. It clears a whole host of complicated scenarios.

IMO you cannot charge with C this turn, as no front edge is available you should be moving and not charging into a overlap.

hazelbark wrote:

imanfasil wrote:I'd think that since the flank charge isn't technically happening until the current impact phase combat hasn't yet been resolved so it would be legal to hit any base.

Which is an optional interpretation I agree. But what is intent. So that would the unit C could charge front base. Thereby having more bases and declare the impact to be C vs 2. The unit being flank charged not engaged. Come conforming then C would move into overlap.

Real quesiton is what is author's intent and it could be clearer.

I think you have to play it as it is written. So you can charge the first base and fight it (but your other BG will still drop a level).

If you start questioning whether authors actually meant what they wrote, you'll end up questioning everything.

grahambriggs wrote:If you start questioning whether authors actually meant what they wrote, you'll end up questioning everything.

Mwahahahahaha!

In addition to being amusing, that's a really good point.

Marc

grahambriggs wrote:

hazelbark wrote:

imanfasil wrote:I'd think that since the flank charge isn't technically happening until the current impact phase combat hasn't yet been resolved so it would be legal to hit any base.

Which is an optional interpretation I agree. But what is intent. So that would the unit C could charge front base. Thereby having more bases and declare the impact to be C vs 2. The unit being flank charged not engaged. Come conforming then C would move into overlap.

Real quesiton is what is author's intent and it could be clearer.

I think you have to play it as it is written. So you can charge the first base and fight it (but your other BG will still drop a level).

If you start questioning whether authors actually meant what they wrote, you'll end up questioning everything.

Isnt melee defined as the ability to fight in the next combat phase?

dave_r wrote: Isnt melee defined as the ability to fight in the next combat phase?

A quick check reveals that "melee" is not defined in either the glossary or the Melee Phase section. One could reasonably assume that whatever it is, it takes place in the Melee Phase (although it is possibe to feed bases into melee in the manoeuvre phase).

The glossary defines close combat as "a general term for impact and melee combat". It also says that "Once such a combat has been joined, battlegroups are deemed to be in close combat until one side ..."

It is not clear whether the combat "has been joined" at the point when the BGs move into contact, or only once they start rolling dice.

One might surmise that by "in melee" the authors intended "having been in close combat in a melee phase".

"Melee" in common wargaming usage means "close combat". It is possible that the authors used it on page 53 in that sense.

A couple of clarity issues there to be cleared up in version 2. I'm guessing Dan will have fed them into the FOG2 forum by now.

Fluffy wrote:IMO you cannot charge with C this turn, as no front edge is available you should be moving and not charging into a overlap.

Actually you are allowed to charge the 3rd base of 2 with C.