Slitherine

There is certainly some question as to how much armor French cavalry wore in the late 17th and 18th centuries. The Cuirassiers du Roi certainly wore full armor, and the Gendarmes and Garde du Corps may have also (being heavy cavalry) . Those cavalry who didn't wear full armor may have worn a front breastplate under their coats. We aren't sure. We are sure that th French were some of the finest cavalry in Europe.

Some other armies do receive the benefit of doubt. Eastern woodlands Indians can have 120 armored foot before 1610. Pacific nothwest Indians can have 112 armored foot. In the Timucan list the archers can have light spear because "depictions show archers stabbing at enemy warriors with what appears to be long cane arrows. This may possibly justify light spear capability". Who are we kidding? Ottoman cavalry isn't given lance because they don't have the weapons skill, but Timucans are given light spear because they are fighting with arrows?

I can't see any reason, logically or historically, why French cavalry shoudn't have some armored cavalry after 1670 (at least one BG). Unless one believes Louis XIV didn't have the resouces to match the Amerindian's use of armor

"Armour" in the context of a system that includes the most heavily armoured cavalry known to us, the fully plated and barded Gensdarmes, is a term that is probably not appropriate for units that wore a cuirass and - perhaps - a helmet. I know that full Gensdarmes are "fully armoured", but "armoured" still means full plat.

puster wrote:"Armour" in the context of a system that includes the most heavily armoured cavalry known to us, the fully plated and barded Gensdarmes, is a term that is probably not appropriate for units that wore a cuirass and - perhaps - a helmet. I know that full Gensdarmes are "fully armoured", but "armoured" still means full plat.

No, contempary Austrians, Bavarians, Saxons, and Anglo-Dutch have armored cavalry in FogR. The first three usually had full cuirass plus helmet, the Anglo-Dutch didn't have helmet, but probably a metal lined hat. And no Amerindian had metal armor (only wood or hide), and many are classes as armored.

If benefit of the doubt is going to be given, give it to the conquering nations, not the conqured.

I think the armoured classification for the north American Indians is meant to represent their interaction with other native armies, not to compare them to their European counterparts. So armoured might be relevant in battles with historical enemies but might not really be suitable VS metal clad Europeans.
Just a thought.

Check page 166 for a brief description of what armoured in game terms includes. "Helmet and back and breast plate armour or more complete mail, leather or textile armour, if mounted, riding unarmoured horses. Also mixed battle groups of armoured and unarmoured and heavily armoured men resulting in an equivalent average level of protection."

deadtorius wrote:I think the armoured classification for the north American Indians is meant to represent their interaction with other native armies, not to compare them to their European counterparts. So armoured might be relevant in battles with historical enemies but might not really be suitable VS metal clad Europeans.
Just a thought.

Sounds reasonable, although I am not sure how giving the Aztecs 12 elite and 36 superior impact foot fits into the logic of the arguement (considering how they did against one very important historical enemy).

Check page 166 for a brief description of what armoured in game terms includes. "Helmet and back and breast plate armour or more complete mail, leather or textile armour, if mounted, riding unarmoured horses. Also mixed battle groups of armoured and unarmoured and heavily armoured men resulting in an equivalent average level of protection."

The only ones that I am aware of that continued to wear full helmet and breastplate were the Austrians and Bavarians. Any English or Dutch "armored cav" would have been no more heavily armored than the Cuirassiers du Roi.

Delbruck wrote:contempary Austrians, Bavarians, Saxons, and Anglo-Dutch have armored cavalry in FogR.

Then I agree that it makes no sense to classify similarly armoured units otherwise.