Slitherine

I started another 1939 campaign and wondered if I should this time focus on Heinkel He 111H2 bombers to upgrade them to He 177A Greif later.
I used Ju88 exclusively till I got to the US scenarios in my first campaign.

So I wondered about the bomber types, availability and the prestige they cost.


There are three bomber lines, Dornier, Heinkel and Junkers. Each comes with one upgrade:

Do 17Z (226)
-> *250* upgrade to Do 217E (476)
476 for all upgrades, not counting losses/replacements

Ju 88A (372)
-> *83* upgrade to Ju 188A (455)
455 for all upgrades, not counting losses/replacements

He 111H2 (300)
-> *285* upgrade to He 177A (585)
585 for all upgrades, not counting losses/replacements


Availability:
Poland: Do 17z, He 111H2
Norway: Do 17z, He 111H2 ---> Ju 88A
Low Countries: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A
France: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A
Sea Lion 40: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A
Greece: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A ---> Do 217E
Barbarossa: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A, Do 217E
Rush to Moscow: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A, Do 217E
Kiev: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A, Do 217E
Moscow 41: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A, Do 217E
Sea Lion 42: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A, Do 217E ---> He 177A
Stalingrad: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A, Do 217E, He 177A (* IIRC in the campaign the He 177A becomes available during the scenario, like the Tiger)
Italy: Do 17z, He 111H2, Ju 88A, Do 217E, He 177A ---> Ju 188A

Kursk, Moscow 43, Gustav Line, Overlord, Bagration, Ardennes, Lake Balaton, Germany and US maps feature all 6 German level bomber types.


Dornier series evaluation:
While the Do 217E is an excellent bomber the Do 17Z is rather weak. Even if we assume total air supremacy its naval attack is very weak and I wonder if such weak ground attacks also result in fairly weak suppression levels? Funnily it was a Do 217 with a "Fritz X" guided bomb that destroyed the Italian battleship "Roma" marking the first major kill of a guided missile/bomb system in history. Still the Do 217E suffers from a timing problem: Too late to influence the early battles where He and Ju establish themselves as level bombers and too close to the supreme He 177A. It's definitely better than all other level bombers you have at this point, but 476 is almost the price for an entirely new unit. But it has tank busting capabilities similar to a Ju 87D and is much more resilient. Unfortunately also much more expensive. Somehow this is a real pity!

Junkers series evaluation:
The upgrade to Ju 188 comes late, cheap and is almost unnecessary. At this time you are either winning or on the defense, and 16 or 18 air defense doesn't matter against strong British and American fighters at all. The Ju 88A has no glaring flaw and will serve you well from the 2nd scenario in the campaign onward.
Also take in account that elite replacements for Ju 88A are very affordable due to the low base price. While the same is true for the Do 17Z the Ju 88A has no glaring flaws like low range and all the many other low values of the Do 17Z.

Heinkel series evaluation:
The He 111H2 is almost as good as the Ju 88A, lacking initiative mostly. Unlike the Ju 88 I wouldn't use it as bait at the east front. While the differences are minor the He 111H2 won't do not nearly as well as the Ju 88A which can easily operate unescorted. I think it is the initiative, my Ju 88s shot down Russian fighters it was quite fascinating.
The main lure of the He 111H2 is the option to upgrade to the He 177A. This bomber is the "king" of German level bombers in Panzer Corps. Luftwaffe aircrew nicknamed it the Luftwaffenfeuerzeug (Luftwaffe's lighter) as it had serious engine troubles in early stages of development and a RN test pilot wrote about it "one of the very few German aircraft of the period that I tested that I did not enjoy flying".
Nevertheless it is the best bomber the Germans have in Panzer Corps but also a rather expensive bomber.

Conclusions:
I wonder if you would want it for the America campaign or if Ju 88 / Ju 188 could do it as well as the He 177A? Operating unescorted is a no-go in America, no matter what bomber you use.

For the 1939 campaign I recommend either
- using the He 111H2 and later upgrading them to He 177A.
- or buying Ju 88A and sticking with them.

Yep, after initially going for the Junkers path, I now use Heinkels.

This is a similar issue to the trouble the Panzer IVG has. Somewhat limited scenarios and time periods present in the current game to allow all 400 units to shine. As we work toward the future though and more content is created, you should expect unit stats and balance to fall under a microscope that will improve all units and their general usefulness for the better.

I can't blame you for Tigers, Panthers, V-Waffen and other stuff being invented too late to have a major impact on WW2.

I intended this for players who wonder if they should go for the Heinkel line or the Junkers line and how much they can expect the upgrade to cost.

I think there is ... not much... if anything you can do to make certain units more appealing.
The Do 17 just wasn't a big deal and the Do 217 just doesn't appear earlier.

I think you already solved the Pz III vs IV issue better than in Panzer General where there was little use for Panzer III before the Panzer IIIJ because the simply all around better PzIVD dominated right away from Norway. The anti-tank and anti-infantry roles are much better portrayed in Panzer Corps, also the switch to Panzer IV with long barreled guns and Panthers/Tigers.

(rather off topic)
I think the bombers are fine as they are, actually. I rather miss the STUGs.
"It is estimated that by 1944 StuG battalions had destroyed 20,000 enemy tanks, mostly T-34s." says all knowing Wikipedia.
But in Panzer Corps anything before the Elefant/Ferdinand which had a powerful gun but no machine gun and nevertheless saw action at Kursk in this configuration is either an Artillery StuG or just not worth it compared to a tank. They can't serve as anti-infantry units and for anti-tank service they cannot compete with Panzer III or IV in Panzer Corps. They are not exactly cheap in comparison either, IMO.
(/off topic)

Longasc wrote:"It is estimated that by 1944 StuG battalions had destroyed 20,000 enemy tanks, mostly T-34s." says all knowing Wikipedia.

StuG was a good tank buster early in the war.
Michael Wittman, famous from Villers-Bocage. Had an incident in Russia where his StugIII took out 6 T-34's in a few minutes.

I dont think this game recognize the Stugs ability to destroy tanks.

TigerIII wrote:I dont think this game recognize the Stugs ability to destroy tanks.

I would answer this is a result of the StuG IIIb only have an artillery mode, and not a dual purpose setting as say the Russian self propelled guns do.
In the future, we'll hopefully have a lot more dual purpose units (quad 20mm is absolutely devastating when turned against infantry) and issues such as these will be solved.

Plus more dual purpose units, and proper upgrade paths for dual purpose units, will hopefully enable AD and Anti-tank to be more useful and more warranting a core slot, which as we see in other threads, is currently not the case.