Slitherine

I really like taking - when I can; units like Recon, Anti tank, Strategic bombers and AA.

From reading some of the posts here, some players do not take (for example) recon at all?

I take great pleasure when I get to use one of these in exactly the role it is meant for.

I think there all useful weapons and i have at least one of each in my core force, often more depending on the battle but i only use mechanized AA and AT. The towed versions are not worth it except for maybe the 88mm

Strategic bombers are phenomenal for campaign play. The rest... not so much.

Anti-tank and to a lesser extent AA are good for multiplayer, and recon cars are arguably the most important class in multiplayer.

The Poll may be misleading since auxiliary, in PG or PC, usually refers to units given only for a specific scenario .

I have a core recon unit which I find very useful. Not only I can capture far away unprotected victory points, by I can also expose a large area of the front line so that my artillery, tactical and strategic bombers know where to hit. Also, the unit is great to quickly give an extra firepower through mass attack to a weak sector. Another useful thing you can do with this unit because of its high mobility, is to give the final blow to weak units that have retreated after taking massive casualties. The same applies for units on river hexes. Ah, almost forgot, many times it provided tremendous support to my air force (low on ammo/fuel), by capturing airfields (usually you have enough units to clear the airfield and capture the city, but you have to wait for the next turn to also take the airfield => recon to the rescue).

Never used AT until now, but I never played a defensive scenario. However, in the low countries and France, I used the auxiliary 8.8 cm Flak as anti tank to capture some cities and to destroy/inflict heavy damage on 1 or 2 tank units.

Strategic bombers are life savers, especially in Norway and Sea Lion. I don't know how you can manage without them. Their ability to destroy ammo and fuel is really great and they are the bane of naval power.

I used a Stuka as a tactical bomber and, with experience, it was able to inflict 4-7 damage in the early scenarios. However, I was forced to switch it to Fighter Bomber class, when the Allied air power increased.

Never used the AA, but I'm playing on Lieutenant difficulty. Because of the low cost, you will probably need to use them on higher difficulty levels when you are tight on prestige.

gnuru wrote:I really like taking - when I can; units like Recon, Anti tank, Strategic bombers and AA.

From reading some of the posts here, some players do not take (for example) recon at all?

I dont think you can decisively win East Coast on Field Marshal without Recons, Anti-Tank and Strategic Bombers. I have never bought AA though (only got the 8.8 you get in the campaign)

I usuaully have recon vehicles as part of my core force. They travel ahead, if they run into enemy units the panzer corps is right behind and will keep it safe.
I also use AA guns as part of my core to protect my stationary artillery.
I use self-propelled AT guns, these suck early on and is a burden. But later they turn into jagdpanthers which are very good and cheap.
Level bombers i used heaps off in PG, but here they dont seem to have the same usage.
I do have one as a ship destroyer.

I keep reading that strategic bombers are great for destroying fuel and ammo, but the game doesn't tell me when I succeed in doing this. I bomb a city, and if I'm lucky, I'll "neutralize" it, which is great. Otherwise, nothing much seems to happen. Does the game give us feedback on when we decrease enemy fuel/ammo stocks? If not, could it do so? Perhaps a little "-5 ammo/-4 fuel" text blurb (like the "-4" we see now in combat) when we bomb?

Grotius wrote:I keep reading that strategic bombers are great for destroying fuel and ammo, but the game doesn't tell me when I succeed in doing this. I bomb a city, and if I'm lucky, I'll "neutralize" it, which is great. Otherwise, nothing much seems to happen. Does the game give us feedback on when we decrease enemy fuel/ammo stocks? If not, could it do so? Perhaps a little "-5 ammo/-4 fuel" text blurb (like the "-4" we see now in combat) when we bomb?

Problem is they can re-supply in one turn.
So you can keep bombing all you want, its gonna make little or no differense.

Must have recon to "see".
Must have one Strategic Bomber to soften up enemy AA at defensive points, so that your Tac air can safely get into blast artillery and other stuff.
AT is a waste, IMO.
AA is kind of a waste too, except the dual-purpose 88mm AA unit can come in handy as an AT when your early tanks are too wimpy.

The problem with dedicated AT and AA is they do not fight often enough; they sort of have to wait for the enemy to come to them. If you have units "not fighting" very often, they are wasting a slot. This is why air is so valuable, because air (weather permitting) it gets in and fights almost every frickin' round and can zig zag all over the map.

(One thing that would make AT and AA more acceptable would be if it could "set up" immediately after moving if it made no attacks that turn. So you could get it into position at least.)

Problem is they can re-supply in one turn.
So you can keep bombing all you want, its gonna make little or no differense.

Heh. But I can't even tell whether I'm stripping a city or units of supply -- the game doesn't tell me, does it?

Must have one Strategic Bomber to soften up enemy AA at defensive points

I didn't realize Strategic Bombers were useful in this role. They are particularly effective against anti-aircraft units? Should I be sending them to attack AA?

I understand that Strategic Bombers are useful against enemy shipping, but is there any other reason to have them?

Grotius wrote:

Problem is they can re-supply in one turn.
So you can keep bombing all you want, its gonna make little or no differense.

Heh. But I can't even tell whether I'm stripping a city or units of supply -- the game doesn't tell me, does it?

Must have one Strategic Bomber to soften up enemy AA at defensive points

I didn't realize Strategic Bombers were useful in this role. They are particularly effective against anti-aircraft units? Should I be sending them to attack AA?

I understand that Strategic Bombers are useful against enemy shipping, but is there any other reason to have them?

Strategic Bombers suppress targets, making them less effective. They also deplete a target's ammo and fuel. Best way to take a city, IMO, is to us a Strategic Bomber before attacking with infantry. And for dealing with AA, yes, they sort of take the bite out of AA.

Grotius, texican makes a very good point. Think of strat bombers as like aerial artillery. They don't cause a lot of kills, but do suppress the enemy which makes them easier for your ground units. Personally, I don't usually send them after AA, I use artillery for that so the bombers don't take much damage. Then, send in strat and tac bombers afterwards with the offensive ground units finishing the job.

Grotius wrote:Heh. But I can't even tell whether I'm stripping a city or units of supply -- the game doesn't tell me, does it?

Well, you simply hover the mouse over the enemy units and look at the stats panel on the left. Of course, if your plane is already above the unit, use the toggle air/ground button.
After attacking, you compare the difference. The number of suppressed units is written in blue and it is deducted from the units strength. This means that those suppressed units will not fire back during, very important, the next direct ground attack (suppressed units accumulate when attacking with air or artillery units).

Grotius wrote: I didn't realize Strategic Bombers were useful in this role. They are particularly effective against anti-aircraft units? Should I be sending them to attack AA?

The ideal attack against entrenched enemy units is something like this:
- strategic bomber (already above the enemy unit when the turn begins) attacks and moves away.
- tactical bomber moves into the hex and attacks.
- artillery attacks.
up to this point you stacked suppression and, most likely, also manages to kill several units. You have a high chance that all the remaining enemy units will not be able to fire back, so 0% chance of casualties for you.
- infantry (pioneers) attack while 1 or 2 units are next to the enemy (mass attack mechanic is in place)

Strategic bombers are very resilient and can attack an AA position with minimum or no casualties. AA are dangerous to tanks and infantry, so they must be suppressed prior to the ground attack.

"L" Hot key after engaging in a strategic bomber attack (or any battle really) will provide you exact details on supplies destroyed.

DreadWing wrote:

Grotius wrote:Heh. But I can't even tell whether I'm stripping a city or units of supply -- the game doesn't tell me, does it?

Well, you simply hover the mouse over the enemy units and look at the stats panel on the left. Of course, if your plane is already above the unit, use the toggle air/ground button.
After attacking, you compare the difference. The number of suppressed units is written in blue and it is deducted from the units strength. This means that those suppressed units will not fire back during, very important, the next direct ground attack (suppressed units accumulate when attacking with air or artillery units).

Grotius wrote: I didn't realize Strategic Bombers were useful in this role. They are particularly effective against anti-aircraft units? Should I be sending them to attack AA?

The ideal attack against entrenched enemy units is something like this:
- strategic bomber (already above the enemy unit when the turn begins) attacks and moves away.
- tactical bomber moves into the hex and attacks.
- artillery attacks.
up to this point you stacked suppression and, most likely, also manages to kill several units. You have a high chance that all the remaining enemy units will not be able to fire back, so 0% chance of casualties for you.
- infantry (pioneers) attack while 1 or 2 units are next to the enemy (mass attack mechanic is in place)

Strategic bombers are very resilient and can attack an AA position with minimum or no casualties. AA are dangerous to tanks and infantry, so they must be suppressed prior to the ground attack.

All good advice except you don't need a mass attack bonus if all the enemy is suppressed! Mass attack just reduces your opponents initiative AFAIK

Thanks for the replies. I do routinely check for suppression after I hit the enemy with arty or aicraft fire; I just don't see much suppression with my early-war strategic bombers. I just upgraded, though, so maybe it will improve.

"L" Hot key after engaging in a strategic bomber attack (or any battle really) will provide you exact details on supplies destroyed.

Now *that* is an excellent idea! I should've thought of that. Thanks!

strategic bombers work well, if you know when you will be attacking a city next turn and can leave it 'parked' over a city next turn.
you start the turn with the the bomber, the bring in a tactical bomber, and then possibly Arty, by then there wont be much for the infantry to assault with.

I have 2 Strat bombers in my core, dont have any AA or Recon and don't intend to get any (I just dont see a use for them, my fighters provide air defense and the extra 1 hex of spotting just doesn't seem worthwhile to me) But I am thinking about getting some SPATs...though I may just settle for more tanks

Horseman wrote:I just dont see a use for them, my fighters provide air defense and the extra 1 hex of spotting just doesn't seem worthwhile to me

Are you talking about the recons? Their job is not just the extra spotting - their big strength is moving in multiple steps and going through the zone of control of enemies.

Korrigan wrote:

Horseman wrote:I just dont see a use for them, my fighters provide air defense and the extra 1 hex of spotting just doesn't seem worthwhile to me

Are you talking about the recons? Their job is not just the extra spotting - their big strength is moving in multiple steps and going through the zone of control of enemies.

Yes I was talkign about recons...

In a different thread I've already mentioned this, the moving through zones of control/moving in stages does not seem like a worthwhile trade off to me...against the AI I'd far rather have the extra combat power of course when I up the difficulty level or start playing against a human opponent I might change my mind