Slitherine

whitehorses wrote:When do English Knights get to Disnmount as Heavy Foot?

Aside from the Battle of Lincoln in 1141, there's little or no mention of Knights dismounting until Boroughbridge in 1322, & then & Dupplin Moor (1332) & Halidon Hill (1333).
And 4 years later when the Hundred Years War started in 1337, it became common practice.

How are the Feudal English & 100Years War English armies reflected in this?



Cheers,
Jer

rbodleyscott wrote:

whitehorses wrote:When do English Knights get to Dismount as Heavy Foot?

Aside from the Battle of Lincoln in 1141, there's little or no mention of Knights dismounting until Boroughbridge in 1322, & then Dupplin Moor (1332) & Halidon Hill (1333).
And 4 years later when the Hundred Years War started in 1337, it became common practice.

How are the Feudal English & 100Years War English armies reflected in this?



Cheers,
Jer

The English list(s) that start in 1320 allow them to dismount.

We have not yet started work on the lists for the earlier period, but as you say, there is a period during which they would not be allowed to dismount at will.

When you choose to dismount Knight BG's, do you have to dismount all of the BG's with Knights, or can you choose which Knight BG's are Mounted & which are Dismounted in Pre-Battle?

whitehorses wrote:List(s) ? ^_~

rbodleyscott wrote:

whitehorses wrote:List(s) ? ^_~

English 100 YW (Britain) - i.e. home defense vs the Scots etc.
English 100 YW (Continental) - i.e. In France, Spain etc.

Note that in this period, as English men-at-arms almost invariably fought on foot, the lists only allow a few men-at-arms to be kept mounted.

whitehorses wrote: Why split the HYW into Britain & Europe?
The only batttles I know of during the HYW in England were against the Scots were at Neville's Cross (1346) & Otterburn (1388) & the Percies & the Welsh at Shrewsbury (1403).
The lion's share of battles & Campaigns in Great Britain took place Pre-HYW & a few Post-HYW.

whitehorses wrote: Even the battles of Dupplin Moor & Halidon Hill pre-dated the HYW & should really be at the tail end of the Feudal English era, as the English began to learn the wisdom of Dismounting their Knights to form a solid defensive line with their Longbowmen.

nikgaukroger wrote:

whitehorses wrote: Why split the HYW into Britain & Europe?
The only batttles I know of during the HYW in England were against the Scots were at Neville's Cross (1346) & Otterburn (1388) & the Percies & the Welsh at Shrewsbury (1403).
The lion's share of battles & Campaigns in Great Britain took place Pre-HYW & a few Post-HYW.

Because there were those battles and the armies were different? Also IIRC there were a couple of expeditions to Ireland as well plus the Welsh campaigns against Glydwr even if they didn't lead to large battles.


But if you're having a separate section for Britain in the HYW list, it should be more than 2 border clashes with the Scots & a few years against the Welsh. And even the two battles against the Scots were 40 years apart. I'm just saying it's not historical or realistic to treat the HYW English as two lists. By all means have something in the armylist that reflects that Knights dismounted versus the Scots before they faced the French & that Commanders against the Scots & Welsh cannot count as Inspired(fighting a Welsh guerilla war & a battle in the dark & on a flank march don't sound very inspiring!) , but it's not significant enough to count as a separate list within the HYW.

whitehorses wrote: Even the battles of Dupplin Moor & Halidon Hill pre-dated the HYW & should really be at the tail end of the Feudal English era, as the English began to learn the wisdom of Dismounting their Knights to form a solid defensive line with their Longbowmen.

As the "100YW" lists cover the period of dismounting these battles fall properly under that list. I can't see any material difference in those armies from the early 100YW ones - is there something you see? So basically why complicate the end of one list to make it the same as the begining of a later one?


Chee

nikgaukroger wrote:I think you're looking to have needless complication in the lists. Cleaner just to split them when the tactical norm changed - such splits are always a bit arbitary anyway (there are few clear cut dates for a change) so why fumble around for probably spurious differences?

Of course it is not my choice on any of these things, that's up to Richard and the rest of the development team

rbodleyscott wrote:

whitehorses wrote:When do English Knights get to Disnmount as Heavy Foot?

Aside from the Battle of Lincoln in 1141, there's little or no mention of Knights dismounting until Boroughbridge in 1322, & then & Dupplin Moor (1332) & Halidon Hill (1333).
And 4 years later when the Hundred Years War started in 1337, it became common practice.

How are the Feudal English & 100Years War English armies reflected in this?



Cheers,
Jer

The English list(s) that start in 1320 allow them to dismount.

We have not yet started work on the lists for the earlier period, but as you say, there is a period during which they would not be allowed to dismount at will.