Slitherine

Hi all

Here is the list of the updates made in the GS v2.01.10 beta version that will be tested and tweaked.
Ronnie and Paul will send out the updates probably by the end of the week.

• Fixed a bug where severe winter wouldn’t spawn in the 1941 scenario because it started in February and already
spawning a severe winter on the first turn
• Bumped the winter (not severe winter) percentage strength for air attack, strategic attack and shock attack
from 50 to 60.
• Added new weather or changed other variables in general.txt
AXIS_WINTER_SUFFER 35 /* Severe winter penalty in 1939. Max efficiency will this value lower */
LESS_WINTER_SUFFER_PER_YEAR 5 /* Winter suffer drops by this value per year */
WINTER_SUFFER_OFFSET 5 /* Severe winter efficiency drop to all units will be Axis_winter_suffer minus this value */
ALLIES_WINTER_SUFFER 0
MAX_WINTER_SUFFER 25 /* Max possible efficiency loss from severe winter */

Axis winter_suffer dropped from 55 to 35. Since it drops by 5 instead of 10 each year it means the value is 25 in 1941 and
20 in 1942. Winter suffer offset is a new variable that will be deducted from the max efficiency drop when finding the
one time per severe winter efficiency drop. One time drop will be 20 in 1941, 15 in 1942 and so on.

The Axis will now lose a lower efficiency on all units present in the severe winter zone. In addition the max efficiency
will drop so the units staying in there can’t regain efficiency back to the former max.

Message about severe winter is updated so it also shows the temporary max efficiency loss.
• Bumped the efficiency loss percentage from southern Russian hexes from 50 to 75 since the max value is now lower.

This is done to let the Axis feel that there is a winter in southern Russia too.
• Production increase per quarter is increased from 6 to 7
• Production increase when a major power activates for war is increased from 10 to 20
• USSR will receive 8 garrison units as their strategic reserve on August 1st 1941
• Norway is linked to Denmark and Sweden and Denmark to Norway and Sweden.

This means that if a country DoW’s one of the 3 countries on a prior turn then the
other 2 will not be surprised.

It also means the units spawning will be at full strength (10 steps). If Norway or Denmark
are surprised then each of their units will be spawned at 2 strength.

So it’s now very lucrative for the Axis to Dow these countries on the same turn
• Belgium and Holland are also linked. If Holland is DoW’ed on a prior turn then Belgium
won’t be surprised. If Belgium is DoW’ed on a prior turn then Holland won’t be surprised.

If Belgium is not surprised then all units will spawn at full strength. Otherwise the
unit in Liege will spawn at 10 strength, the corps at 7 strength and the garrisons at 5 strength.
The location of the garrison adjacent to Belgium is dependent on which side will DoW Belgium.

If Holland is not surprised then all units will spawn at full strength. Otherwise the garrisons will
spawn at 5 strength and the corps at 7 strength. The garrison north of Hague is removed.
• The French and UK forces in France (and air units in UK) will only suffer a 20 efficiency loss if
Belgium surrenders in one turn.
• The 1939 scenario is updated so the one Dutch garrison is removed and one Belgian garrison is
removed so it can spawn dependent upon which side will attack Belgium. It will defend against
France if the Allies DoW Belgium and against Germany if the Axis DoW.
• The 1940 scenario is changed so Denmark and Holland are set to neutral. The German forces are
moved out and placed outside these countries
• The Germans are allowed to build a paratrooper in 1939 so they can have it ready for Case Yellow
Liege can’t be changed to a city from a fortress until 1940 because the paratrooper can’t be released
out of the force pool until the fair weather in 1939 is over.
• I’ve changed the German synth oil plant productions to the following:
Industry tech 0: 0 production
Industry tech 1-3: 1 production
Industry tech 4-5: 2 production
Industry tech 6: 3 production

I’ve tried the 1940 scenario and I have no problems at all taking out both Holland and Belgium in one turn.
So I think the changes we made can work.

Taking out Norway and Denmark together is not so hard either. You wait until you’ve won in France and
then send several land units to southern Denmark and sail a few to Norway. You land in Norway and at the
same time rush towards both Copenhage and Aalborg. Those can be taken without air support (only 2 steps)
So you can rebase air units to Aalborg and use them against Norway the next turn. The Allies can repair
losses to the unit in Oslo, but it will only be upgraded from 2 steps to 5 steps. Taking out 5 steps with 2
units and air support should be very easy.

I already see a problem with the Norway/Denmark scenario. If I understand the changes correctly, Norway and Denmark will only spawn a 2 step GAR in their capital if both countries are invaded on the same turn. Is this irrelevant of the year and/or the fall of Poland? One of my favored strategies is to invade Norway in 1939. This was actually quite risky because of the random weather as it will only be possible to launch the invasion of Norway on turn 3 (October 1939). As an Axis player it would be quite easy to finish off Poland in two turns. In the meantime the two western INF are sent to the shores of Norway near Oslo. Another INF or even MECH is railed to Kiel. Then the Axis DOW both Norway and Denmark if the weather is fair on turn 3 (75 % chane).

It will then be quite easy to capture both countries in 1939 if I understand the changes correctly.

Stauffenberg wrote:Hi all

Here is the list of the updates made in the GS v2.01.10 beta version that will be tested and tweaked.
Ronnie and Paul will send out the updates probably by the end of the week.

• Fixed a bug where severe winter wouldn’t spawn in the 1941 scenario because it started in February and already
spawning a severe winter on the first turn
• Bumped the winter (not severe winter) percentage strength for air attack, strategic attack and shock attack
from 50 to 60.
• Added new weather or changed other variables in general.txt
AXIS_WINTER_SUFFER 35 /* Severe winter penalty in 1939. Max efficiency will this value lower */
LESS_WINTER_SUFFER_PER_YEAR 5 /* Winter suffer drops by this value per year */
WINTER_SUFFER_OFFSET 5 /* Severe winter efficiency drop to all units will be Axis_winter_suffer minus this value */
ALLIES_WINTER_SUFFER 0
MAX_WINTER_SUFFER 25 /* Max possible efficiency loss from severe winter */

Axis winter_suffer dropped from 55 to 35. Since it drops by 5 instead of 10 each year it means the value is 25 in 1941 and
20 in 1942. Winter suffer offset is a new variable that will be deducted from the max efficiency drop when finding the
one time per severe winter efficiency drop. One time drop will be 20 in 1941, 15 in 1942 and so on.

The Axis will now lose a lower efficiency on all units present in the severe winter zone. In addition the max efficiency
will drop so the units staying in there can’t regain efficiency back to the former max.

Message about severe winter is updated so it also shows the temporary max efficiency loss.
• Bumped the efficiency loss percentage from southern Russian hexes from 50 to 75 since the max value is now lower.

This is done to let the Axis feel that there is a winter in southern Russia too.
• Production increase per quarter is increased from 6 to 7
• Production increase when a major power activates for war is increased from 10 to 20
• USSR will receive 8 garrison units as their strategic reserve on August 1st 1941
• Norway is linked to Denmark and Sweden and Denmark to Norway and Sweden.

This means that if a country DoW’s one of the 3 countries on a prior turn then the
other 2 will not be surprised.

It also means the units spawning will be at full strength (10 steps). If Norway or Denmark
are surprised then each of their units will be spawned at 2 strength.

So it’s now very lucrative for the Axis to Dow these countries on the same turn
• Belgium and Holland are also linked. If Holland is DoW’ed on a prior turn then Belgium
won’t be surprised. If Belgium is DoW’ed on a prior turn then Holland won’t be surprised.

If Belgium is not surprised then all units will spawn at full strength. Otherwise the
unit in Liege will spawn at 10 strength, the corps at 7 strength and the garrisons at 5 strength.
The location of the garrison adjacent to Belgium is dependent on which side will DoW Belgium.

If Holland is not surprised then all units will spawn at full strength. Otherwise the garrisons will
spawn at 5 strength and the corps at 7 strength. The garrison north of Hague is removed.
• The French and UK forces in France (and air units in UK) will only suffer a 20 efficiency loss if
Belgium surrenders in one turn.
• The 1939 scenario is updated so the one Dutch garrison is removed and one Belgian garrison is
removed so it can spawn dependent upon which side will attack Belgium. It will defend against
France if the Allies DoW Belgium and against Germany if the Axis DoW.
• The 1940 scenario is changed so Denmark and Holland are set to neutral. The German forces are
moved out and placed outside these countries
• The Germans are allowed to build a paratrooper in 1939 so they can have it ready for Case Yellow
Liege can’t be changed to a city from a fortress until 1940 because the paratrooper can’t be released
out of the force pool until the fair weather in 1939 is over.
• I’ve changed the German synth oil plant productions to the following:
Industry tech 0: 0 production
Industry tech 1-3: 1 production
Industry tech 4-5: 2 production
Industry tech 6: 3 production

I’ve tried the 1940 scenario and I have no problems at all taking out both Holland and Belgium in one turn.
So I think the changes we made can work.

Taking out Norway and Denmark together is not so hard either. You wait until you’ve won in France and
then send several land units to southern Denmark and sail a few to Norway. You land in Norway and at the
same time rush towards both Copenhage and Aalborg. Those can be taken without air support (only 2 steps)
So you can rebase air units to Aalborg and use them against Norway the next turn. The Allies can repair
losses to the unit in Oslo, but it will only be upgraded from 2 steps to 5 steps. Taking out 5 steps with 2
units and air support should be very easy.

Is there any patch named 2.01.09 ? if no ,why this is direct to 2.01.10 ?

We're going to skip GSv2.01.09. So the patch will be GSv2.01.10.

is there any special reason to skip 2.01.09?

Morris wrote:is there any special reason to skip 2.01.09?

Not really. We just lost count and accidentally skipped it and instead of going back to only make a change to cosmetically "fix" this we decided to stay with the numbering.

the reason is unreasomable but acceptable .

Stauffenberg wrote: • Added new weather or changed other variables in general.txt
AXIS_WINTER_SUFFER 35 /* Severe winter penalty in 1939. Max efficiency will this value lower */
LESS_WINTER_SUFFER_PER_YEAR 5 /* Winter suffer drops by this value per year */
WINTER_SUFFER_OFFSET 5 /* Severe winter efficiency drop to all units will be Axis_winter_suffer minus this value */
ALLIES_WINTER_SUFFER 0
MAX_WINTER_SUFFER 25 /* Max possible efficiency loss from severe winter */

Axis winter_suffer dropped from 55 to 35. Since it drops by 5 instead of 10 each year it means the value is 25 in 1941 and
20 in 1942. Winter suffer offset is a new variable that will be deducted from the max efficiency drop when finding the
one time per severe winter efficiency drop. One time drop will be 20 in 1941, 15 in 1942 and so on.

Maybe I'm thickheaded but, in the the last phrase, the one-time penalty at beginning of SW (e.g. '41) is 20 and the maximum-efficiency drop during whole SW is 25? Shouldn't it be otherway around?


File downloaded the just fine from the new source. I started skimming the general.txt for changes and noticed this:

AIR_COMBAT_MUD_NORMAL 50 /* Air combat efficiency percentage in mud weather */
AIR_COMBAT_MUD_WINTERIZED 50 /* Air combat efficiency percentage in mud weather for winterized units */
AIR_COMBAT_WINTER_NORMAL 50 /* Air combat efficiency percentage in winter weather */
AIR_COMBAT_WINTER_WINTERIZED 100 /* Air combat efficiency percentage in winter weather for winterized units */
AIR_COMBAT_SEVERE_NORMAL 60 /* Air combat efficiency percentage in severe winter weather */
AIR_COMBAT_SEVERE_WINTERIZED 100 /* Air combat efficiency percentage in severe winter weather for winterized units */

These should be swaped around right?
AIR_COMBAT_WINTER_NORMAL 50
AIR_COMBAT_SEVERE_NORMAL 60

Pionurpo wrote:

"in the the last phrase, the one-time penalty at beginning of SW (e.g. '41) is 20 and the maximum-efficiency drop during whole SW is 25? Shouldn't it be otherway around?"

Hi - I noticed that as well. Actually doesn't it also say the one-time drop in 1941 is 35 in lines 2 and 7 (below)? So is it that the one time drop is 35, and recovery can only bring the unit back by up to 25 (so a unit at 85 would drop to 50 and can recover to 75)?


1. Added new weather or changed other variables in general.txt
2. AXIS_WINTER_SUFFER 35 /* Severe winter penalty in 1939. Max efficiency will this value lower */
3 .LESS_WINTER_SUFFER_PER_YEAR 5 /* Winter suffer drops by this value per year */
4. WINTER_SUFFER_OFFSET 5 /* Severe winter efficiency drop to all units will be Axis_winter_suffer minus this value */
5. ALLIES_WINTER_SUFFER 0
6. MAX_WINTER_SUFFER 25 /* Max possible efficiency loss from severe winter */

7. Axis winter_suffer dropped from 55 to 35. Since it drops by 5 instead of 10 each year it means the value is 25 in 1941 and
8. 20 in 1942. Winter suffer offset is a new variable that will be deducted from the max efficiency drop when finding the
9. one time per severe winter efficiency drop. One time drop will be 20 in 1941, 15 in 1942 and so on.

PionUrpo wrote: Maybe I'm thickheaded but, in the the last phrase, the one-time penalty at beginning of SW (e.g. '41) is 20 and the maximum-efficiency drop during whole SW is 25? Shouldn't it be otherway around?

These should be swaped around right?
AIR_COMBAT_WINTER_NORMAL 50
AIR_COMBAT_SEVERE_NORMAL 60

Regarding the last issue you're right and I've sent to Paul and Ronnie a new general.txt file for update to GS v2.01.10. That was a typo.

The first issue is not a mistake. Remember that the 20 one time efficiency drop will drop the efficiency for ALL Axis units inside Russia regardless of their current efficiency levels. So a unit already quite worn maybe drop down to 35-40 due to this change.

The 25 drop to max efficiency will NOT drop the current efficiency level, but only limit how high you can regenerate efficiency.
Units won't lose efficiency unless they move or fight. So if you e. g. have got a unit up to 90 efficiency due to a leader and then you move the leader away then the unit will remain at 90, but if it fights and e. g drops to 80 it can't get back up to 90 without the presence of a leader.

So the reduced max efficiency will only affect the Axis units long term, meaning that they can't get back to e. g. 90 efficiency during the winter by resting. They can only regenerate back up to 65 or so and need non severe winter weather to regain the last 25 (examples above are for 1941).

Morris wrote:the reason is unreasomable but acceptable .

Why is that unreasonable? V2.01.09 was a version sent to Paul and Ronnie only and before it could be sent out we made more updates due to the game balance issue.

peterjfrigate wrote:Pionurpo wrote:
Hi - I noticed that as well. Actually doesn't it also say the one-time drop in 1941 is 35 in lines 2 and 7 (below)? So is it that the one time drop is 35, and recovery can only bring the unit back by up to 25 (so a unit at 85 would drop to 50 and can recover to 75)?

1. Added new weather or changed other variables in general.txt
2. AXIS_WINTER_SUFFER 35 /* Severe winter penalty in 1939. Max efficiency will this value lower */
3 .LESS_WINTER_SUFFER_PER_YEAR 5 /* Winter suffer drops by this value per year */

The value shown is for 1939 and it drops by 5 pear year (shown in 5). Since 1941 is 2 years after 1939 it means the value for 1941 is 35 - 2*5 = 25.

zechi wrote:I already see a problem with the Norway/Denmark scenario. If I understand the changes correctly, Norway and Denmark will only spawn a 2 step GAR in their capital if both countries are invaded on the same turn. Is this irrelevant of the year and/or the fall of Poland? One of my favored strategies is to invade Norway in 1939. This was actually quite risky because of the random weather as it will only be possible to launch the invasion of Norway on turn 3 (October 1939). As an Axis player it would be quite easy to finish off Poland in two turns. In the meantime the two western INF are sent to the shores of Norway near Oslo. Another INF or even MECH is railed to Kiel. Then the Axis DOW both Norway and Denmark if the weather is fair on turn 3 (75 % chane).

It will then be quite easy to capture both countries in 1939 if I understand the changes correctly.

This was also the case in the GS v2.00. I've seen several games where the Germans attacked Norway in 1939 before the bad weather hit.

Norway's and Denmark's war readiness was NOT linked to what happened in Poland. These countries had a mobilization defense. They needed an event close to them to mobilize.

So the forces you see as surprised countries are the strength of the units prior to mobilization. E. g. the Norwegians were as ill prepared for war in 1939 as in 1940. Norway hoped to remain neutral and believed the war would take place on the Continent and not in Scandinavia.

The Norwegians needed time to prepare for defense like a prior invasion of Denmark or Sweden. Then the illusion of keeping Scandinavia would have been broken and the Norwegian army could have mobilized fast enough to fight Germany full strength.

I'm sure that Germany could have invaded Norway in 1939 as well if they really wanted to. The truth is that Germany really didn't need Norway. They wanted to secure the Swedish iron ore route from Narvik and believed Norway could protect their neutrality. After the Altmark affair in February 1940, where the RN boarded a German troop ship with British prisoners in Norwegian coastal waters, the Germans realized that the Norwegians could not stop the British from interdicting the iron ore. Therefore the invasion plans made in October 1939 were set into motion.

In GS v2.01.10 it's possible for the RN to more easily interdict the Germans if the Germans go for Norway in 1939. They can e. g. use French naval ships to blockade the Germans in the Helgoland Bight. The start setup for the Allies means they can quickly have a superior naval force in the Skagerrak to prevent any Axis aggression. The Germans have to sail very early to get ashore before the bad weather in the north can start.

My concern is not about Axis aggression vs Norway in 1939, but Allied aggression. It's easier for Britain to take Norway if they go. The penalty to US war effort might be enough to stop such attempts, though. Maybe Germany can stop this by using subs in the Skagerrak to block such attempts. Germany can invade Denmark if that happens to get airbases to bombard the RN and accept that Norway is at full strength in 1940.

I wonder if a turn 1 attack and conquest of Denmark might be the best strategy for the axis. Though this would cause a fully mobilization of Norway, this would guard against a UK/French invasion.

Stauffenberg wrote: The first issue is not a mistake. Remember that the 20 one time efficiency drop will drop the efficiency for ALL Axis units inside Russia regardless of their current efficiency levels. So a unit already quite worn maybe drop down to 35-40 due to this change.

The 25 drop to max efficiency will NOT drop the current efficiency level, but only limit how high you can regenerate efficiency.
Units won't lose efficiency unless they move or fight. So if you e. g. have got a unit up to 90 efficiency due to a leader and then you move the leader away then the unit will remain at 90, but if it fights and e. g drops to 80 it can't get back up to 90 without the presence of a leader.

So the reduced max efficiency will only affect the Axis units long term, meaning that they can't get back to e. g. 90 efficiency during the winter by resting. They can only regenerate back up to 65 or so and need non severe winter weather to regain the last 25 (examples above are for 1941).

Thanks for clarifying.