Slitherine

A couple questions:

1. Does prestige carry over from one campaign scenario to the next? If I end Norway with 400 prestige, is that in addition to what I start LowLands with?

2. I know I get prestige for capturing cities during a campaign scenario, but are there any other sources of prestige? Do I get a certain amount for completing a scenario? More if it is a decisive victory? Less, because if I go for marginal I gain the extra turns?

3. I seem to be getting to LowLands (after Norway) with around 700 prestige (and still needing to heal and upgrade before purchasing anything new). is this a typical amount

Blathergut wrote:A couple questions:

1. Does prestige carry over from one campaign scenario to the next? If I end Norway with 400 prestige, is that in addition to what I start LowLands with?

2. I know I get prestige for capturing cities during a campaign scenario, but are there any other sources of prestige? Do I get a certain amount for completing a scenario? More if it is a decisive victory? Less, because if I go for marginal I gain the extra turns?

3. I seem to be getting to LowLands (after Norway) with around 700 prestige (and still needing to heal and upgrade before purchasing anything new). is this a typical amount

1. Yes it does

2. You get prestige at the end of the scenario...it would appear you get more prestige for a victory rather than a decisive (as daft as it sounds, I think its probably game play, if you're getting decisives all the way you dont need the extra prestige) So in norway fro example you're better off waiting till the last turn as you'll get 500 more prestige and still go to the lowlands

3. That seems awfully low, I'm trying to think how much I had but I think it was way over 2000, if you look in my AAR i think i purchsed a tank, upgraded a couple to PzIIIs (would be full price) bought a fighter and a tac bomber as well as a few other upgrades (and repairing back to strength 10) Did you do any upgrading through Norway? Lost units and replaced them?

EDIT: Oh yes in some scenarios you get a small bonus after set up is complete, typically around 50 prestige - I say some but I think probably all

Another source of Prestige are airfields. I believe they give you 50 Prestige (same as cities). Victory Hex cities give you 100 Prestige. I always try to take everything on the map in order to maximize Prestige. As Horseman has said, 2000 Prestige should be more like it when you get to Low Countries. What where your core purchases and upgrades for Poland and Norway? Did you use any Prestige for Elite replacements? I usually don't use Elite replacements for the first two maps since Prestige is needed elsewhere.

This is what I usually get. POLAND: buy 2 Sturmpanzers and 2 Stukas (you need more artillery plus Stukas are cheap purchases to start and can be upgraded to Me110's later on when Prestige is in more supply). NORWAY: purchase a Ju88 (for dealing with the ships) and another fighter plus upgrade tanks to PzIII's and upgrade the infantry (2 inf to paratroopers, 2 to grenadiers and 1 to gerbirgsjager). Even after all that, I still end up with around 2500 Prestige for the Low Countries (I play Norway to the very last turn to get the extra 500P).

I have been using elite prestige for all casualty replacements to get unit experience up. That's probably where I'm losing it.

Plus, I never knew about the mass attack reducing casualties. So I've probably been taking more than I should have.

Blathergut wrote:I have been using elite prestige for all casualty replacements to get unit experience up. That's probably where I'm losing it.

There so many strategies you can employ, youll eventually fall into one that suits your play style. I always heal with elites, I feel I need 4-5 star jaded veterans by the time I get to Russsia

TheGrayMouser wrote:There so many strategies you can employ, youll eventually fall into one that suits your play style. I always heal with elites, I feel I need 4-5 star jaded veterans by the time I get to Russsia

This is true and I should amend my statement. I meant I never use Elite replacements during gameplay on the first two maps. I wait until the deployment phase to use Elite replacements since they only cost half as much as they do during the round. I also don't overstrengthen units until the Low Countries or France. 10 strength is good enough for the first three maps. Getting my new units and upgrades are a bigger priority for me during the opening rounds of the campaign. For example, getting my infantry and artillery into half-tracks is more important to me than having a couple of 11 strength infantry and have them stuck with using trucks.

Overstrengthening is always something I flipflopped on. Mostly because I have a suspicion that the Ai specifically targets those units, just to spite your hard work.

Speaking of Ai targeting, that "special" tank I got gets remorslessly attacked by the AI in every battle, its goes after him even with bad odds to the point that I usally now have learned to hold it in reserve so it can survive the ist couple turns w/o being knocked down to 3-4 sp's . i m sure Im imagining it but....

I doubt it mousy, I am certain the AI likes to target certain units. I have given up on stukas as when I got to Russia my 13 point Stuka attracted every Ruski fighter on turn 2 so it was lucky to survive with 2 strength. All my other air (including the flying paras) were ignored by the red airforce. Now I stick to ME110's as they have a bit better survivability in the air. I have also noted that when I have at least 6 air units, bombers and fighters the AI likes to invest a lot of points in AA guns, keeps the Luftwaffe away from the cities.

deadtorius wrote:I doubt it mousy, I am certain the AI likes to target certain units. I have given up on stukas as when I got to Russia my 13 point Stuka attracted every Ruski fighter on turn 2 so it was lucky to survive with 2 strength. All my other air (including the flying paras) were ignored by the red airforce. Now I stick to ME110's as they have a bit better survivability in the air. I have also noted that when I have at least 6 air units, bombers and fighters the AI likes to invest a lot of points in AA guns, keeps the Luftwaffe away from the cities.

I guess its only fair, I like to target specific Ai units as well

AgentX wrote:Another source of Prestige are airfields. I believe they give you 50 Prestige (same as cities). Victory Hex cities give you 100 Prestige. I always try to take everything on the map in order to maximize Prestige. As Horseman has said, 2000 Prestige should be more like it when you get to Low Countries. What where your core purchases and upgrades for Poland and Norway? Did you use any Prestige for Elite replacements? I usually don't use Elite replacements for the first two maps since Prestige is needed elsewhere.

This is what I usually get. POLAND: buy 2 Sturmpanzers and 2 Stukas (you need more artillery plus Stukas are cheap purchases to start and can be upgraded to Me110's later on when Prestige is in more supply). NORWAY: purchase a Ju88 (for dealing with the ships) and another fighter plus upgrade tanks to PzIII's and upgrade the infantry (2 inf to paratroopers, 2 to grenadiers and 1 to gerbirgsjager). Even after all that, I still end up with around 2500 Prestige for the Low Countries (I play Norway to the very last turn to get the extra 500P).

Yikes. I didn't realize a DV in Norway worth worth less a last turn victory.
I went with 3 sturmpanzers and a stuka bought in poland.
Bought a Ju88a, 2 tracked recon and a second trucked 105mm arty in Norway and left the 2 Pz 1's in reserve to be upgraded to Pz IV's in the low countries.

I'm shooting for 3 mini panzer divisions broken into 2 kampfgruppes each approximately, but not quite the way the germans did it in WW2 due to core size constraints and tactical balance reasons.

ASAP KG 1 will be 1 Pz IV, 1 grenedier with halftrack and 1 sturmpanzer. Later on a an AT and a second tank will be added. It will receive fighter coverage.
KG 2 will be one recon functioning as a light tank,1 wehrmacht infantry trucked and 1 105mm arty trucked. Upgraded to 155 mm arty asap. Later on a pioneer and AA will be added.


In case your wondering what an historical KG1 and KG 2 are: Where early war is 39 and late war is 43.

Early war 4 tank battalions, late war 2 tank battalions.
1 grenedier and 1 pioneer with half tracks.
Early war 1 self propelled arty company, late war 1 self propelled arty battalion.

KG2 is:
1 recon battalion
3 grenedier battalions with trucks.
2 105 and 1 155 mm arty battalions with halftrucks
1 AA and 1 AT battalion with a 1/3 self propelled and 2/3 towed with halftracks mixture in early war and the opposite in late war. I think.

Blathergut wrote:I have been using elite prestige for all casualty replacements to get unit experience up. That's probably where I'm losing it.

I get elite, too, as green reinforcements will hurt eventually. Has anyone noticed if it is cheaper to get renforcements during battle or during deployment? I keep forgetting to check.

During deployment Green Replacements are free.

The best investment for overstrength is, where it is the most efficient, obviously...
So start calculating efficiency

You can model it 2 ways, I ll explain the one I find more intuitive.

The cost side is clear (amount of prestige for overstrength)
The benefit side needs more consideration:
The additional firepower gained needs to set in perspective with the situational value of the firepower and the duration the overstrength is present.

Eg you have a choice between a level 15 tank and a level 15 towed artillery.
The tank may (possibly) fire more often, because it can fire nearly every turn. The towed artillery can only fire eg 2/3 of the turns, because it needs to be towed to the battle and can only fire in the next turn and after firing it can not always move within engagement range of the next encounter...
So the tank deals more damage with the overstrength. But since the artillery is vital for city attacks, the lesser fire of the artillery may be of more use (or not).

But here comes the real catch. Whats the likelyhood of the two to lose their overstrength (eg what units do you have to reinforce the least)? For me that is artillery and bombers in that order. An investment in 1 overstrength for artillery lasts for a lot more battles, than an investement in 1 tank overstrength.

Razz1 wrote:During deployment Green Replacements are free.

So how about Elite and overstength? Is it cheaper during battle or in deployment?

I’m also finding it disconcerting to get less prestige (or so it seems) for decisive than I would for a marginal. I believe the theory of “Prestige” is that you get the opportunity to get more because you have achieved more. I don’t think the Fuhrer would have doled out more tanks and planes to his marginal commanders. I understand it helps balance the game for beginners and allows them to catch up to the challenge, but I feel the lack of prestige due to my success is going to hurt no matter how skilled I am. 3000 prestige to heal and upgrade a damaged and outdated Corps heading into Sealion ’40? PG was the opposite in this regard.

Practice Luke... use the force and listen to Obee Wan Kanobe.

Then you won't need 3000 prestige to fix your army.

Cost is same for over strength and Elites during deployment phase at START of scenario.

Well, I refought Poland and Norway. Start the Low Lands with 3000 prestige now. A couple INF gained a star, and my arty.

Razz1 wrote:Practice Luke... use the force and listen to Obee Wan Kanobe.

Well, okay, seems easy enough......sure those T1 and T2s will understand my desire to not lose forces.

Best advice.....ever

i got decisive victories on all maps in a '39 campaign (now attacking USA) .... always having some minor problems with prestige - can't overstrength every unit, can't buy new units because of elite replacements .... i was quite surprised when i saw that i have 12 000 prestige points to spend in USA and all the best units to buy or upgrade ....

and i have around
10 infantry units
7-8 tanks
3 artillery
6 fighters
3 stuka bombers
4 strategic bombers (which i would gladly sell for more prestige

More than likely you will need all 1200 points too, havent seen it yet but I do recall the horror of attacking USA in PG, never managed a decisive could not get through all those city hexes you had to wade through within the allowed time.