Slitherine

As a Seleucid player, I was dismayed to see that FoG doesn't differentiate between elephant types, particularly cataphracts. According to RBS, the distinctions are lost in the top-down style of the rules. Fair enough, but playing Hatrans lately, I see that their cataphract camels get that boost over normal camels. What gives?

I also see that in FoG 2.0, they are consdiering giving elephants three dice at impact (along with some other things) because many TT players complain that elephants are under powered. Hmmm.

Deeter

So currently you feel that elephants are a bit truncated then, deeter?

LOL! Not really. Three dice would be nice because I always try to bring elephants if available. They mostly just need to be treated with care to be effective. I would like to get the cataphract advantages though to go along with the cool Seleucid elephant image.

Deeter

deeter wrote:LOL! Not really. Three dice would be nice because I always try to bring elephants if available. They mostly just need to be treated with care to be effective. I would like to get the cataphract advantages though to go along with the cool Seleucid elephant image.

Deeter

Do elephants only get 2 dice at impact? I always assumed 4 like all other cavalry!

EDIT: I just read that cavalry (including elephants) get 3 dice at impact. So I can't see why people want to get 3 dice if they do already? Or is this a TT thing?

It's a TT thing. There BGs are made up of multiple stands with each stand in front getting two dice and each in support get one, so a four stand cav BG in 2x2 formation would get three dice for each file. Elephant BGs are only two stands, normally deployed 2x1 only getting 2 dice per file, IIRC -- haven't played FoG tt in awhile.

Deeter

deeter wrote:As a Seleucid player, I was dismayed to see that FoG doesn't differentiate between elephant types, particularly cataphracts. According to RBS, the distinctions are lost in the top-down style of the rules. Fair enough, but playing Hatrans lately, I see that their cataphract camels get that boost over normal camels. What gives?

I also see that in FoG 2.0, they are consdiering giving elephants three dice at impact (along with some other things) because many TT players complain that elephants are under powered. Hmmm.

Deeter

Catatphract camels have a boost because they have HA and lances! Oh and camel stink:) I dont know how cataphracted pacs would fit into the game since beasties , chariots etc have no armour class and cant have better armour POA counted for or against them., Maybe thats why they dont have them ?

That must be it. Hadn't though of that. Maybe they should rethink that too.

Deeter

Oh and camel stink:) TGM

Is that in there capabiltes as war beasts... or one of there natural defences, in which case should barbarians get a boost when no water is on the map? The BO effect?

Is there some way to:
1) force all the types of cavalry to evade elephants?
2) add the possibility of range attack for elephant crew?

In the Hellenistic warfare elephantry was mainly used as screen against enemy cavalry. War elephants rarely participated in close combat.

This is one of the things that is somewhat too simplified in FoG, bot TT and digital.

All elephants are the same, which get pretty unhistorical if you play a Ptolemaic vs Seleucid battle. I think the difference between Indian and African Forest elephants should be reflected in the game.

Cathartid wrote:Is there some way to:
1) force all the types of cavalry to evade elephants?
2) add the possibility of range attack for elephant crew?

In the Hellenistic warfare elephantry was mainly used as screen against enemy cavalry. War elephants rarely participated in close combat.

Unfortunaley the rules are such that lancers cant evade period, although it would be nice to have them have the option vs pacs, perhaps being disrupted if they do chose to evade?

With the latest patch and additonal cavalry weapons you CAN give elephants the rear rank bow crossbow missle class. I havnt tested though to see if the AI will utilize it but seems it should.

All elephants are the same, which get pretty unhistorical if you play a Ptolemaic vs Seleucid battle. I think the difference between Indian and African Forest elephants should be reflected in the game.

But why? Raphia was the first and the last battle where African (Ptolemaic) elephants were fighting Indian (Seleucid). We have no information concerning real battle experience of Ptolemaic elephant corps before and after 217 BC.