Slitherine

I've always felt that the severe winter penalty is too harsh at first and then the Axis recovers too fast. The truth was that the efficiency penalty was bad through the entire winter.

I therefore propose the following.

Severe winter penalty will NOT make the usual a one time efficiency hit, but instead make a lower one time hit and reduce the max efficiency the unit can have while inside severe winter. The one time hit was 35 in 1941, 25 in 1942 and so on.

I propose instead the following.
Max efficiency 1940: -25
Max efficiency 1941: -25
Max efficiency 1942: -20
Max efficiency 1943: -15
Max efficiency 1944 -10
Max efficiency 1945: -5

All units get a one time hit of half the max efficiency drop rounded up to the nearest 10. So in 1941 all units drop 20 regardless of the current level and they can max regain to 25 below their prior max efficiency.

This means we won't see units so easily down in the red area, but some in the orange and more in the yellow. The Russians will still have a good chance to make some attacks, but not so devastating ones.

Since the max efficiency will be kept lower through the entire winter it means the Germans will have to spend a turn or two after the severe winter ends to recover back to max efficiency. So if the severe winter ends in April it's maybe better to wait till June until you release the 1942 offensive. This is what happened historically too.

Units in southern Russia except in mountains will suffer half of the ones further north.

One good thing about this is that German units that arrives in the severe winter area will also suffer from the winter. Before the Germans could rail units from Germany to the front line and these would not be affected. It was a common strategy to send the airplanes west just prior to the severe winter hit. Now it won't be as effective because you get hit with the efficiency drop once you fly back to the Russian severe winter hexes.

Just as an example. The Germans could have 85-90 efficiency in Russia in the presence of a leader. With this change they will instead have 60-65 and only lose 20 from the current level instead of the huge 35. So German units at abouyt 65-70 efficiency due to fighting will drop to 45-50 instead of 30-35. The bad side for them is that they will not get back to the good efficiency until the weather changes so they are vulnerable for a longer time.

This means the Russians can only focus on more concentrated attacks instead of attacking along the entire front line to inflict damage. They would need air support to soften up their targets etc.

it seems the first little good news for Axis during the last 72 hours ( but also to pay a expensive price )

I think it is worth testing this. In recent games as the Allies, I have had trouble putting Eastern Front Germans in disarray much before the fall of 1944, when it is too late. I gather from reading that some other players have had this experience too. Tweaking the winter rules may change the dynamic a bit in a way that marginally favors the Soviets, which could be a good thing.

It seems like a good change for balancing even more Eastern front scenario. I agree that right now the soviets can have some problems to progress if the germans have: 1) good commanders in USSR; 2) high tech level infantry units. And I also agree that with this change the soviets can make a deeper punch into german lines in winter as it historically happens.

It would be a nice change for avoiding that gamey playing of retreating air units and other units back to non severe winter hexes in the first turn of severe winter and to move them again back to the front in severe winter second turn.

Anyway this change should be accompanied by the change (almost forgotten) discussed in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=25315&start=0. We could try with a slight increase of air, shock and strategic attacks efficiencies of non winterized countries in normal winter weather. Right now is 50 so we could increase it to 60. This would represent that the germans performed reasonably well in normal winter weather (Typhoon, Bulge, etc.) and this would also give the british and americans a chance to push harder in winter weather of 1944 in Western front.

leridano wrote:It would be a nice change for avoiding that gamey playing of retreating air units and other units back to non severe winter hexes in the first turn of severe winter and to move them again back to the front in severe winter second turn.

I don't know if this tactic is gamey or not but isn't it realistic? The problem with the severe winter was that engines and equipment froze. If these engines and equipment were moved to a more temperate area wouldn't that have alleviated the problem? The only gamey part I see is when they're moved back before the end of severe winter and thereby miss that effect. Realistically they, and all units moved into that area, should suffer a pro-rated severe winter effectiveness hit.

But air unit outside of the severe winter area but operating from bases in a more temperate zone shouldn't suffer any effect I think.

leridano wrote:Anyway this change should be accompanied by the change (almost forgotten) discussed in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=25315&start=0. We could try with a slight increase of air, shock and strategic attacks efficiencies of non winterized countries in normal winter weather. Right now is 50 so we could increase it to 60. This would represent that the germans performed reasonably well in normal winter weather (Typhoon, Bulge, etc.) and this would also give the british and americans a chance to push harder in winter weather of 1944 in Western front.

I agree that we can certainly try that in our test games with the latest updates.

rkr1958 wrote:But air unit outside of the severe winter area but operating from bases in a more temperate zone shouldn't suffer any effect I think.

Given the game turn is 20 days worth of operations and does not present a single misson to the winter zone I reckon an unit should suffer from operating in bad weather.

Now if the old idea of air units use the worst weather in the home hex or the target hex could be implemented maybe that would balance things out some. Yes, that would still leave the EFF "bonus" for German air in Poland but would cut their Land/Air attack levels when they operate in the winter hex from fair weather hexes. Maybe that would balance things out a little.

But there was a code reason why this wasn't practical to implement?

_Augustus_ //who likes the likes the idea of a smaller EFF penalty that is sustained for longer non-winterized troops.