Slitherine

So amongst all the playtesting so far, who are the topdogs to fear of Foot?
Elephants & Knights are best Mounted, so who are the best Foot in the Feudal & Medieval Era?

Swiss Pikes are the big cheese presumably, but who are next best thing?
Dismounted Men-at-arms, Billmen & quality spearmen, poor quality Spearmen, Swordsmen, Polearms, etc
There's a lot of good Foot in there, so who get the thumbs up & who gets the thumbs down?

Cheers,
Jer

I found my dismounted Men at Arms in HYW English pretty good. I used them in too small units, but they still were rock hard. They tended to be at a slight disadvantage on impact, but then got the upper hand in melee (nasty heavy weapons with lashings of armour).

paulcummins wrote:I found my dismounted Men at Arms in HYW English pretty good. I used them in too small units, but they still were rock hard. They tended to be at a slight disadvantage on impact, but then got the upper hand in melee (nasty heavy weapons with lashings of armour).

Cool! Did you use them as a mixed BG with Longbowmen & skirmishers, or just on their tod?
What did your Dismounted M-A-A fight well against & what did they struggle against?



Cheers,
Jer

They alternated with the longbowmen (see Neils report from Leeds)

Their problem was losing to big a proportion with one base lost (from 4)

They did well against spearmen, stood up to pike and avoided Legionaries like the plague

paulcummins wrote:They alternated with the longbowmen (see Neils report from Leeds)

Their problem was losing to big a proportion with one base lost (from 4)

They did well against spearmen, stood up to pike and avoided Legionaries like the plague

Hmm, better keep your Knights mounted against the Romans then, to take out their Legionaries
Seems pretty damn good Dismounted against all other Foot though, even against superior numbers. Score!

What's the rest of the HYW army like? Do you get many skirmishers & Knights? And how are stakes deployed for the Longbowmen?


Cheers,
Jer

Is their heavy weapons and armour that does the job, gives them the advantage against most things - except legions and massed pike.


I only deployed my stakes once (a complex move) as most of the time mounted were running scared of my machine gunners.

you dont get many skirmishers - which is a bit of a problem as a lot of skirmishers can be annoyingly good in an exchange of missiles.
Not many knights either. Mine chased off a few skirmishers, chased off some cavalry, got cornered by spear, and then in the 4th game finally charged home - against medium foot in the open who evaporated.

I didnt fight the legions until the last minute - hunting down and killing all the auxillary troops in my game against Romans.

paulcummins wrote:Is their heavy weapons and armour that does the job, gives them the advantage against most things - except legions and massed pike.


I only deployed my stakes once (a complex move) as most of the time mounted were running scared of my machine gunners.

you dont get many skirmishers - which is a bit of a problem as a lot of skirmishers can be annoyingly good in an exchange of missiles.
Not many knights either. Mine chased off a few skirmishers, chased off some cavalry, got cornered by spear, and then in the 4th game finally charged home - against medium foot in the open who evaporated.

I didnt fight the legions until the last minute - hunting down and killing all the auxillary troops in my game against Romans.

A heady mix of Plate armour & Polearms, just the job! Did they run into any Bows, or did the Longbowmen shoot them away?

Why is placing Stakes complex?
Shouldn't be - 2 moves should cover it;
1) Place Stakes
2) Stand Longbowmen ready behind stakes & fire at at targets in range.
That was Henry V's strategy at Agincourt, to provoke the French into a rash charge.

Pity about the lack of skirmishers
What about the Billmen? Are they as effective as the Dismounted M-A-A?
And did you manage to pressure their skirmishers by chasing them off & threatening to catch them?

I read somewhere that it was much cheaper to transport Foot over to France than Knights & their Horses, so that'd explain the lack of Knights. It's debatable how many extra Knights they'd get from their Fr. held terrritories, difficult to prove either way.

Good idea - treat Legionaries like Elehants, something to avoid if poss unless their friends start dying in droves


Cheers,
Jer

whitehorses wrote:Why is placing Stakes complex?

In AoW a BG cannot always do something it wants to. The way this is handled is using complex move tests (CMT). For example a BG of undrilled foot has to make a CMT to turn 90 or 180 degrees in place. A drilled heavy foot BG can always turn 90 or 180 as a move but if it passes a CMT it could turn 90 and then move. Skirmishers can always turn 90 and move etc.

The CMT mechanism is used to make the placing of stakes something that might not happen quite as qucikly as you want it to. If your archers advance to charge reach of some knights and shoot them there is a chance that if the knights charge the archers won't have had time to set their stakes. If the archers look to set their stakes a bit further away from the knights then they are far more likely to manage the job in time.

What about the Billmen? Are they as effective as the Dismounted M-A-A?

Nearly

I read somewhere that it was much cheaper to transport Foot over to France than Knights & their Horses, so that'd explain the lack of Knights. It's debatable how many extra Knights they'd get from their Fr. held terrritories, difficult to prove either way.

I am not so sure about that. The English armies of the later 100YW has a lot of horses, many of the archers rode to battle before dismounting to fight.

Hammy

hammy wrote:

whitehorses wrote:Why is placing Stakes complex?

In AoW a BG cannot always do something it wants to. The way this is handled is using complex move tests (CMT). For example a BG of undrilled foot has to make a CMT to turn 90 or 180 degrees in place. A drilled heavy foot BG can always turn 90 or 180 as a move but if it passes a CMT it could turn 90 and then move. Skirmishers can always turn 90 and move etc.

The CMT mechanism is used to make the placing of stakes something that might not happen quite as qucikly as you want it to. If your archers advance to charge reach of some knights and shoot them there is a chance that if the knights charge the archers won't have had time to set their stakes. If the archers look to set their stakes a bit further away from the knights then they are far more likely to manage the job in time.


Works for me - echoes of Patay if they fail their CMT , or Agincourt if they succeed:D
Can Inspiring Generals help BG's pass CMT's if in contact?

What about the Billmen? Are they as effective as the Dismounted M-A-A?

Nearly

Good against Mounted?

I read somewhere that it was much cheaper to transport Foot over to France than Knights & their Horses, so that'd explain the lack of Knights. It's debatable how many extra Knights they'd get from their Fr. held terrritories, difficult to prove either way.

I am not so sure about that. The English armies of the later 100YW has a lot of horses, many of the archers rode to battle before dismounting to fight.

Suspect that after the many successful chevauchees Edward III & the Black Prince ran, finance wasn't so much of a prob & they could easily afford to ship their Knights across the Channel. Ditto to finance Breton, Brabacon & Gascon mercenaries if they needed.

Cheers,
Jer

whitehorses wrote:

hammy wrote:The CMT mechanism is used to make the placing of stakes something that might not happen quite as qucikly as you want it to. If your archers advance to charge reach of some knights and shoot them there is a chance that if the knights charge the archers won't have had time to set their stakes. If the archers look to set their stakes a bit further away from the knights then they are far more likely to manage the job in time.

Works for me - echoes of Patay if they fail their CMT , or Agincourt if they succeed:D
Can Inspiring Generals help BG's pass CMT's if in contact?

Of course

Ordinary generals would help too but not as much as inspired ones.

What about the Billmen? Are they as effective as the Dismounted M-A-A?

Nearly

Good against Mounted?

The difference bewteen billmen and dismounted knights is that the billmen will normally have less armour. They are essentailly the same against most medieval mounted but the dismounted knights will have an advantage against non bill armed foot.

Hammy

hammy wrote:

whitehorses wrote:

hammy wrote:The CMT mechanism is used to make the placing of stakes something that might not happen quite as qucikly as you want it to. If your archers advance to charge reach of some knights and shoot them there is a chance that if the knights charge the archers won't have had time to set their stakes. If the archers look to set their stakes a bit further away from the knights then they are far more likely to manage the job in time.

Works for me - echoes of Patay if they fail their CMT , or Agincourt if they succeed
Can Inspiring Generals help BG's pass CMT's if in contact?

Of course
Ordinary generals would help too but not as much as inspired ones.

That's the ticket then
'General says place Stakes, stakes get placed. He sounds like he knows what he's doing'

Nearly

Good against Mounted?

The difference bewteen billmen and dismounted knights is that the billmen will normally have less armour. They are essentailly the same against most medieval mounted but the dismounted knights will have an advantage against non bill armed foot.


Kewl! So Dismounted Knights are the way to go against Pike & Spearblocks, unless you have Scots or Spear of that sort in which case you use Knights mounted as a 'Threat' but don't charge them until they get disrupted....



Cheers,
Jer

I can't see any reason why emplacing stakes would be complicated.

Time consuming yes - but Patay was a case of an army caught on the march so lack of stakes was only 1 factor AFAIK.

Why do dismounted MAA need to avoid legioaries "like the plague"?

stalins_organ wrote:I can't see any reason why emplacing stakes would be complicated.

Time consuming yes - but Patay was a case of an army caught on the march so lack of stakes was only 1 factor AFAIK.

Why do dismounted MAA need to avoid legioaries "like the plague"?

Just because something needs a complex move test to acomplish it doesn't mean it is necessarily complicated to acheive. The CMT is there to potentially put delay into troops acehieving some maneuvers (or placing stakes).

stalins_organ wrote:
Why do dismounted MAA need to avoid legioaries "like the plague"?

They don't - you may have noticed there was humour in the comment.

The purpose of the smiley wasn't obvious!