Slitherine

Hi All,

Designing an army as we 'speak', and am wondering on opinions of 8 average unprotected heavy weapon or 6 superior unprotected heavy weapon.

I'm thinking the Superior might be the way to go.

Thought?

To do what job? Can't answer your question without the context.

grahambriggs wrote:To do what job? Can't answer your question without the context.

Fair enough.

The army is a mostly 'heavy foot army' and needs some mediums to do the heavy terrain stuff.

I can afford 2 BG's of MF to do this job... so

1 x superior 6 and 1 x average 8
-or-
2 x average 8.

2 average 8s for me. You'll often want bulk in those terrain fights.

grahambriggs wrote:2 average 8s for me. You'll often want bulk in those terrain fights.

Hmm.

My consideration was (and give me your opinions please) is the case where you have TWO areas you have to at least threaten.

The Superior can go into the one that is more heavily defended, while the averages go into the area that is less well defended.

ravenflight wrote:

grahambriggs wrote:2 average 8s for me. You'll often want bulk in those terrain fights.

Hmm.

My consideration was (and give me your opinions please) is the case where you have TWO areas you have to at least threaten.

The Superior can go into the one that is more heavily defended, while the averages go into the area that is less well defended.

Good way to lose both....

what is a single BG of these troops going to beat? If you want to win, send both in.

madaxeman wrote:

ravenflight wrote:

grahambriggs wrote:2 average 8s for me. You'll often want bulk in those terrain fights.

Hmm.

My consideration was (and give me your opinions please) is the case where you have TWO areas you have to at least threaten.

The Superior can go into the one that is more heavily defended, while the averages go into the area that is less well defended.

Good way to lose both....

If you go charging headlong into them yes, but I'm talking about a situation where you MUST cover both. You'll want to have the superior in the most threatening position and the average in the least threatening.

In that situation I don't think it makes too much difference. Say you're against 8 MF protected off spear average. the superior are a bit better at impact, but 8 dice are better than 6 in the melee. I'd probabbly still go for the average.

My option would still be to mass the MF and find a way that I don't have to go into 2 bits of terrain - not that you can necessarily tell in advance that you'll need to do that.

Either that, or take more than 2 BGs of MF?

Also remember that depending on what it is armed with heavy foot can do well in rough. Not Spear or pike, but anything that is impact, or light spear and swordsmen is fairly handy. OK, you may lose 1 dice in three but if you are impact foot you will be on an up in impact. I would back roman armoured skilled sword against most things in rough. And even if you are on even factors that is still good enough to cover or threaten as you have stated you might need to do.

ravenflight wrote: If you go charging headlong into them yes, but I'm talking about a situation where you MUST cover both. You'll want to have the superior in the most threatening position and the average in the least threatening.

Such a situation is sufficiently unlikely that it's probably not worth planning for. Just ignore the bad going and sit a unit of close formation foot - or cavalry - outside it, and wait for the enemy MF to come out to get beaten.

durrati wrote:Also remember that depending on what it is armed with heavy foot can do well in rough. Not Spear or pike, but anything that is impact, or light spear and swordsmen is fairly handy. OK, you may lose 1 dice in three but if you are impact foot you will be on an up in impact. I would back roman armoured skilled sword against most things in rough. And even if you are on even factors that is still good enough to cover or threaten as you have stated you might need to do.

That's the trouble, the rest of the army is spear.

You may also want to take into account the chance that you want to give them rear support at some stage.
Harder to do if they are superior.
2 x 8 avg is my vote.

madaxeman wrote:

ravenflight wrote: If you go charging headlong into them yes, but I'm talking about a situation where you MUST cover both. You'll want to have the superior in the most threatening position and the average in the least threatening.

Such a situation is sufficiently unlikely that it's probably not worth planning for. Just ignore the bad going and sit a unit of close formation foot - or cavalry - outside it, and wait for the enemy MF to come out to get beaten.

Disagree. If the enemy has anchored a line of troops with terrain at one or both ends, and even worse set back enough that any troops advancing to the side of the terrain are risking something hitting them in the flank, it's handy to have a couple of BGs that can go in and keep the terrain enemy occupied for a few turns.

And of course that is leaving out the possibility of them being useful for you in a defensive role.

Also worth considering is that they could fulfil the role of (reasonably) mobile reserve and giving rear support to your main fighting troops. And that latter point might influence whether to tkae average or superior.

ShrubMiK wrote:Disagree. If the enemy has anchored a line of troops with terrain at one or both ends, and even worse set back enough that any troops advancing to the side of the terrain are risking something hitting them in the flank, it's handy to have a couple of BGs that can go in and keep the terrain enemy occupied for a few turns.

And of course that is leaving out the possibility of them being useful for you in a defensive role.

Also worth considering is that they could fulfil the role of (reasonably) mobile reserve and giving rear support to your main fighting troops. And that latter point might influence whether to tkae average or superior.

Yeah, I think I'll keep them as "Average" and "Superior" if for no other reason than the superior can give rear support to my other superior troops in a pinch. Also, this means I get 1 bg of 8 LF Javelinmen instead of 1bg of 6 LF Javelinmen that I'll have to take to get the extra couple of points needed to go to 8 Average in both.

All in all, I think this is the better pick, but appreciate everyone's thoughts.

I've now created my super army that none will be able to stand before. I'll let you all know if this brag lives up to it's worth after my first few games

If it's a case of holding up for long enough while the heavy foot push past, and you have two terrains to cover with 2MF then I would still go with the average.

Your guys will almost certainly be in melee at even POAs. 6 sup guys are likely to do three hits and a re-roll, which may be a fourth hit, may not. 8 av will do about 4 hits. In such a combat, you're really looking to survive as long as possible, and the best way to do that is to score enough hits that you don't lose.

Hence, in situations where the enemy score 4 hits, the average should be 4-4 while the superior might lose 4-3, likely lose a base and struggling next round.

It's all fine margins though, so doesn't matter that much.

ShrubMiK wrote:Disagree. If the enemy has anchored a line of troops with terrain at one or both ends, and even worse set back enough that any troops advancing to the side of the terrain are risking something hitting them in the flank, it's handy to have a couple of BGs that can go in and keep the terrain enemy occupied for a few turns.

And of course that is leaving out the possibility of them being useful for you in a defensive role.

Also worth considering is that they could fulfil the role of (reasonably) mobile reserve and giving rear support to your main fighting troops. And that latter point might influence whether to tkae average or superior.

Yeah, I think I'll keep them as "Average" and "Superior" if for no other reason than the superior can give rear support to my other superior troops in a pinch. Also, this means I get 1 bg of 8 LF Javelinmen instead of 1bg of 6 LF Javelinmen that I'll have to take to get the extra couple of points needed to go to 8 Average in both.

All in all, I think this is the better pick, but appreciate everyone's thoughts.

I've now created my super army that none will be able to stand before. I'll let you all know if this brag lives up to it's worth after my first few games

ravenflight wrote:Hi All,

Designing an army as we 'speak', and am wondering on opinions of 8 average unprotected heavy weapon or 6 superior unprotected heavy weapon.

I'm thinking the Superior might be the way to go.

Thought?

take 8 Superior, buy using poor light foot

LeslieMitchell wrote:
take 8 Superior

Can't.

LeslieMitchell wrote: buy using poor light foot

Already have my maximum poor light foot.

Since you can't the issue what role do you have for them?

will they be supported?


If not supported in rough\uneven going go with the 6 Superior they will take last longer with the reroll, you would hope.

If supported go with the 8 Average more dice to roll you would hope

Leslie