Slitherine

OK, this isn't a direct question on how conforming works, that seems very clear (essentially the charging unit conforms after impact during the maneouvre phase).

No problem.

Except that it seems to regularly lead to wierd situations that have us scratching out head.

I'll give you a possible (if unusual) example.

A 12x Superior pike phalanx BG charges and contacts a 4x poor light horse BG, hits it on an angle and steps forwards.
In the Maneouvre phase it then has to conform to the light horse.

That's where we scratch our heads. How can a small, loose skirmishing poor quality group of horsemen force a well disciplined pike phalanx to deviate from its line of advance (by conforming)?

We feel that the 'lighter' formation should generally conform to the 'heavier' group.


So my question is really about why conforming works the way it does?
What is the design rationale?
Why are well drilled heavy infantry forced to conform to undrilled light skirmishing foot?
What historical precedents are there for this happening?


And finally, given that that's the way conforming does work int he rules, how have you experienced players coped with it?
What tactics have you developed to exploit this with your light troops (particularly useful i suspect for light horse armies like Partians or Mongols)?
What tactics have you developed to cope with having your impetuous heavy foot army being pulled apart by being forced to charge and then comform to skirmishers?

Looking forward to hearing your wisdom chaps!

Luddite wrote: What tactics have you developed to exploit this with your light troops (particularly useful i suspect for light horse armies like Partians or Mongols)?
What tactics have you developed to cope with having your impetuous heavy foot army being pulled apart by being forced to charge and then comform to skirmishers?

Looking forward to hearing your wisdom chaps!

Well, sticking around with light horse to get charged by pike is a good way of saying goodbye to the light horse. They are going to be seriously smashed. Also, the light horse must test to stand. I can see some rationale in putting a unit in such a way that it might force you to open a flank, but not at the expense of a BG.

I run javelin-armed LF just in front of the heavies so that at least one LF base is in front of each HF BG. That way, the HF don't have to test to burst through if enemy LF are opposite them. Plus the javelins tend to scare bow-armed LF away.

I've never used the idea of angling a BG so that the pikes or such have to conform onto the angle and then pursue in that direction. Maybe others here could describe if they've used that successfully.

For a start the foot never have to charge mounted. So just take a bit more time and ensure the mounted skirmishers become more of a problem to their supports which, if you play your manouver well, they must break through if they fail the test to stand, and will quickly route through if they do stand.

Conforming does cause some very odd situations sometimes, just a feature of the game really. Some people have suggested that units should not actually conform, just fight as if they had, which would remove some of the funny involuntary movement results, at the cost of making it harder in some confused melees to see who is fighting who and at what POAs.

Hi all, thanks for the responses.

I have an additional question that arose in our last game and that we couldn't work out from the RAW, so your sage advice would be most welcome.

OK...



So we had an MF unit (UNIT A in the picture), reduced by 2 bases from a fontal contact, but bolstered back to 'steady', that routed its frontal opponent. However, it was then immediately charged in the flank by catphracts (UNIT B). We got the cohesion drop and the base turning to meet the flank contact sorted out.

The impact contact defied the odds and neither unit took any further effect (d'oh!).

What we puzzled about is what happens during the 'feeding bases nto combat' part of the maneouvre phase.
Do the MF 'feed in' to meet the cataphracts as i've illustrated above?

If not what happens?
Did we do it wrong?

As ever, if we did, can i get a page ref that identifies what should have happened please?

Thanks all...

Do the MF 'feed in' to meet the cataphracts as i've illustrated above?

I think you got it spot on.

See Page 70 - Reforming. And then Page 72 - Feeding more bases in. See also Page 168 for the detailed sequence of play.

Essentially you reform into a column behind A3 in the movement phase. And then you can match the enemy overlap.

Cheers Pete.

Phew!

Its clear as day under 'reforming', which we didn't look at in the heat of battle as that doesn't seem immediately obvious a place to find how to react to the contact.

Cheers for the excellent advice.

Actually, something else cropped up to do with a charging unit (UNIT A) being unable to conform to UNIT B (due to a very cluttered combat).

The charging unit (A) couldn't conform (not enough room) so 'continues to fight in an offset formation' (p71).

Fine.

Now then, p70 says 'the active player's BGs must conform if able to do so'.

So in the above situation, does UNIT B (which received the charge and is able to conform) conform to UNIT A (which charged but couldn't conform) in UNIT B's subsequent manouvre phase?

Cheers
Ludd

So in the above situation, does UNIT B (which received the charge and is able to conform) conform to UNIT A (which charged but couldn't conform) in UNIT B's subsequent manouvre phase?

Yes

Which can lead to other head scratching effects. I once was charged by a bunch of cav which contacted my knights and then stepped into an angled BG of crossbows which were hiding in a patch of brush. The chargers couldn't conform, but in my manuever phase the crossbows were forced to conform, which dragged the entire BG out of the brush. Didn't do the cav any good as it was double overlapped and quickly reduced to autobroken. But had he planned his charges a bit more carefully, he could have really ground up the crossbows.

ravenflight wrote:Well, sticking around with light horse to get charged by pike is a good way of saying goodbye to the light horse. They are going to be seriously smashed. Also, the light horse must test to stand. I can see some rationale in putting a unit in such a way that it might force you to open a flank, but not at the expense of a BG.

Won't the LH break off in JAP?
That would mean i doesn't break unless is double drops.

The LH has a good chance of losing 2 bases which would normally autobreak it. But if it does not yes it will break off.

It's not that the LH can't survive - they may even be steady with no base losses. However, the likely result is at least lose a base and disrupt, annd there is a chance of worse. So in this situation standing is rarely better than evading.