Slitherine

First of all, I played the original panzer general to death, even made many custom scenarios, and did the pbem for years. I have it installed in dos now, but don't play it much.

I will go back and forth between this and the game, giving my thoughts.

Note that I haven't really dug into the game, so there may be options I haven't found that address some of my views.

By the way, my computer runs the game like butter, no probs there. I have an athlon 6400 and an Nvidia 9600gtx video card windows xp. a bit surprised to see no video options to change resolution, etc???

Minor graphic thing: the word continue (tutorial) goes past the button border on my computer.

I would like to see the units stand out better from the terrain. How about the option of adding a border highlighted, say white, around all your units? I have selected strong hex sides and unit glow, but would still like more!
another idea that might help would be unit bottoms (like chess pieces have). I play strategic command global and the unit "bases" make it much easier to see the units when they are in terrain.

The right click to attack is very non-intuitive. I play lots of games RTS/FPS mostly, and attack is always with the left mouse button and deselect with the right. I have made several bad attacks meaning to deselect the unit.

Of course this will pass with practice, but you don't want to chase away anybody playing the demo, do you? As they say, you only have 1 chance to make a first impression on those who never played the original, why not make it easier to pick up? How about the ability to assign mouse buttons to commands?

I would like to see the units that get destroyed actually be destroyed, not that I'm a graphics whore, but it is anti climatic the way that it is and i find myself wondering, did it retreat out of sight, or was it destroyed?

I would like to see the fuel and ammo at the top of the screen when I pick a unit instead of the sidebar (but you are probably past a move like that in development).

I would like to see the green objectives on the zoomed out tactical map as well as the strategic map. Actually, do you really even need a strategic map? just zoom out and there you are!

In the buy menu: I would like to see the unit stats when buying the units more like the old panzer general, that is the stats written out. Here is what I mean.

5 hard attack
10 soft attack
3 movement

This could go next to the little icons (actually, I don't think you even need the icons). There are a bunch of them, and they are not really grouped as effectively as I think they could. As an alternative, how about the first line being all the attack stats, the second all the defense stats, etc. Actually, you kind of did that, but they are all so close together.

I'm assuming a Brukenpioniere is a bridge unit? if so, why not list it as such? Also, I don't care for the graphic for this unit, looks like a little zepplin on the map.

I would like a page where I could see my unit stats (I mean kills, exp).

How do you tell core units from non core units? I would like an easy way to see this before spending money on a unit.
I would also like them highlighted on the unit list.

Also in the unit list, sometimes clicking on them goes to the unit, sometimes not. I would like to see it always go to the unit, rather than just highlight the ones that are on the screen. I know zooming out can get you to see them, but would like to see it move to the unit when I am zoomed in.

how about all units having a flag? kinda hard to tell my inf. from the polish ones (at a glance) their colors wash out some with the terrain (polish brown inf. in a brown city, for example). the only way i can tell mine is to look at the facing of the units, but even that washes out some in the terrain.

when using the "next" button" to cycle through my units, i don't think it necessary to go to units that have moved but not fired if they are not in range to fire.

I see 2 polish air. I would like to see the game tell me what they are in their name. It could say "Kara Tac Bomber"
for example.

ok, a polish tank just showed up. So I want to check his stats, I turn on the stat panel, and put my cursor over the polish tank. now i don't know what icon means what, but when i move the cursor off the tank to hover over the icon and find out, his stats go away. frustrating (remember that one chance for first impression). so, how about making him selectable so that the stats don't go away, or MUCH better yet, have the stats list what they are rather than forcing me to memorize them?
Just saw a polish anti air unit. Wow, that thing is huge, I thought it was some kind of rail gun until I checked it out. I think the scale of this next to an artillery is way off.

I just rolled a tank through a polish city and I did not capture it. Ok now I know you have to stop in one, and I like it. It takes some time to do these things, most games you can just roll through. Good. Also, I see artillery cannot capture, good again.

Here are some things I like. I like that units can move, then fire later. Many games make you finish with one unit at a time. I like the sound effects. I like the fact that unit strength numbers change to yellow and red as they get damaged.

How about making the airfield runways thicker so they will be easier to spot?

Hope I don't sound to harsh, I really want to like this game, and appreciate the chance to provide input. Hoping that a worthy successor to one of the best games ever is in the making!!

Just finished the first game - On Rommel level, got a marginal victory. With all the bad attacks made by clicking wrong button, I think I could do better.

One other thing, I miss the experience stars over my unit, I like to be able to identify my best units easily.

My major complaint is the units tend to blend in, making it difficult to plan my strategy. With the advances of computers, better graphics sometimes hinder rather than help. The very sparse graphics in the original, were to me, better and easier to use. Perhaps a video option to use less? Probably not happening at this late stage. I do think this could be fixed, or at least made much better by hex highlights around units, and or, a base at the bottom of the unit the color of the team and with a flag.

Looking forward to trying more of the game. I will dig some now, see what I can learn...

dave

Ok, I'm trying the first mission russia 1943 (looks like the big battle of kursk).

How about the units that have not moved blink on the strategic map?

I just realized that a Russian fighter was nearly invisible (green on green). I would REALLY like to be able to see units easier at a glance. This gets worse when you are looking at a fighter that is small (sharing hex with a land unit)

I think there are some scale issues with the graphics. A Russian truck (artillery) is bigger than my tanks, looks wrong.

My units are getting attacked during russian turn. By artillery, I guess as I don't see anything. How about the attacking unit becomes momentarily visible?

I can tell when a russian unit is low on ammo, should that be?

I mentioned this in my first post, but how about a destroyed unit leaving a hulk for a few seconds to show it is destroyed?

in the old pg, you could put air around an enemy and keep him from flying away, it appears this does not happen anymore, good!

after hitting a russian with artillery, i see a blue number by his strength (suppression

??) when i try to cursor over, my mouse leaves the unit and i can no longer check it out. Another reason to make the enemy selectable.

note: I'm starting to warm to the game...

Just noticed a 17 strength soviet inf. I thought that 10 was max, and above was elite???

was watching an attack on my tank, started 10 strength. 1st attack knocked down to 7, but the 7 is red? next attack, knocked down to a 3, retreats, but now the 3 is white? not sure what just happened.

I'm having some trouble telling aa guns from artillery. would like to see the words next to the name of the unit. Example: 37mm aa gun.

I always thought that in the original pg, that anti air units were overpowered against tanks and inf. this led to spamming aa units for defense. I see this again, perhaps you could tweak this.

also, the elephant tank seems overpowered on the attack. this was a defensive antitank, very unmaneuverable, and not good on the attack.

lost this one, failed 2 objs. still learning game.

figured out reserves - like the idea.

this game has lots of potential!

Thanks for the feedback. Its not harsh at all - we want to know all the things that don't feel right so this is perfect.

You can turn on unit glow to make units stand out more
Many of the other things you want are on our to do list so hopefully they'll be addressed before release
Units do appear when they fire from the shroud so not sure what happened there
You can tell AA guns from Artillery by the angle of the gun or the icon on the right panel. AA guns point more vertically. This also shows the unit name.,

I would like to see the enemy units move and attack. just watched a tank explode and it took me several seconds to realize that a very small plane had hit it. all enemy movement in field of view should be noticeable, rather than the units just showing up.

I'm still having problems finding airfields. How about the airfield have a nice fat white runway?

As near as I can tell, the only way my units (I'm playing Barbarossa now) can kill a Russian AA gun is to suppress it first with artillery. I remember pg 1, on defense, we would just spam AA guns, they ruled all. in pbem, we finally made a rule that limited the number of AA guns you could have to keep the game realistic.

I would HATE to see that happen in this game!!!

I'm trying to attack a Russian AA gun. it is:


9 strength. When I alt-click, it says suppression 11. How can you have more suppression than strength?


I'm not understanding how the unit numbers are changing color. how can a red be attacked, retreat, and turn white?

I would like the option to turn off automatic defensive fire for artillery and fighters, sometimes I'm low on ammo.

Discovered hot keys, alt click makes thing much better for examining units.

the combat log is difficult. don't think i need die rolls and stuff like that, clutters it up, and i have no idea what they mean. best just to have the major facts.

I would put:

experience/units attacked/any current suppression/list of units it has killed
losses vs damage done/ etc.

How about an end of turn summary (after the enemies turn)?
A summary after the battle would be cool as well.

Another thing I would like to see: Sometimes you know an enemy unit is present even though you can't see it. How about you (for example) hold down ctrl key and click each hex that you want your unit to follow to it's destination. The move would only be completed once you let go of the ctrl key and clicked the target hex. This is also good for scouting. Several games I have played support something like this, and it is something I use often.

I just loaded the invasion America scenario just to see the units. Great job!! Lots and lots of units, I like that. I believe the DO 335 was a fighter, not a tac bomber. Also glad that you made the HE162 inferior to the ME262, that was something that PG got wrong, and always bothered me!


dave

Got to be honest with you, at first glimpse I thought that I was just a Chinese replica. (No offense I know, that a lot of guys put tremendous amount of effort to it.) Playing some two days with it I realized, that there is much more to it.
Installation, registration went just fine. No problem with them. I liked the menu and everything. I consider my selves as a hardcore strategy game player, so for me it was refreshing that there was NO black and white (or color) video about the II.WW, I find them so annoying.
I had the chance to try the single player camping. It was just great. My only problem was the graphics. I expected definitely much more, and I was not speaking about a 3D mambo jumbo. The side menu on the game screen just (let’s be honest) u.ly On some maps it was hard to distinguish the enemy from the actual map, since the colors were very close. Other than that I enjoyed it. I hope really that the graphics will improve.

I would like to see the enemy units move and attack. just watched a tank explode and it took me several seconds to realize that a very small plane had hit it. all enemy movement in field of view should be noticeable, rather than the units just showing up.

This is becoming a game breaker for me - I am getting very frustrated watching my units being attacked and destroyed by enemy that seem to pop up out of the ground. I need to see where they come from, at least.

Ok, was out out town, but back now.

just tried first game on beta 999.

MUCH better. I like the classic mouse controls, I like that you see the enemy units as they move and attack, I like the fact that you can hover over enemy and see stats.

Library looking much better!

Some quick thoughts of things that I would fix:

Units that have already moved, but not fired should not come up when you hit next unit unless there is a unit they can fire at. I know that a unit may retreat into their line of fire, and at that point I think they should pop up.

Maybe it's me getting used to the game, maybe you fixed some stuff, but I didn't have nearly as much trouble spotting units.

I still would like an option to pick the path my units take, this will allow me to avoid units that I know are hidden in the fog of war.

When I select my unit, then hover over an enemy, I would like to see the projected attack numbers shown. that would save time moving and unmoving all my units.

I still think the unit stats are cluttered. I really don't want to memorize 20 icons, better to just put it in words.

I still have problems figuring the colors of suppressed units etc. For example, sometimes the number is blue, sometimes yellow, sometimes red. I guess I can figure it out with practice.

I would like to see the map show my area of vision. The hexes could be shaded or a softer white glow. This could be an option that can be turned off.

Overall, I think 999 is much much better. Hoping the improvements continue. Will try some more scenarios soon.

El_Condoro wrote:

I would like to see the enemy units move and attack. just watched a tank explode and it took me several seconds to realize that a very small plane had hit it. all enemy movement in field of view should be noticeable, rather than the units just showing up.

This is becoming a game breaker for me - I am getting very frustrated watching my units being attacked and destroyed by enemy that seem to pop up out of the ground. I need to see where they come from, at least.

Just use the movement slider to lower the speed for moving animation,then u ll see the enemy's attack path quite clearly.

Just tried the Norway campaign. On the 10th turn, I still had several (7, I think) objectives to capture and the game ended with an axis victory. That must be a bug.

I would like the ambush/rugged defense/evade notices to be bigger and bolder in text.

Also the ZOC for ships seems too tough. DD's and the like would always zip in and out of battles, and subs can go under any ship.

dave123 wrote:Just tried the Norway campaign. On the 10th turn, I still had several (7, I think) objectives to capture and the game ended with an axis victory. That must be a bug.

I would like the ambush/rugged defense/evade notices to be bigger and bolder in text.

Also the ZOC for ships seems too tough. DD's and the like would always zip in and out of battles, and subs can go under any ship.

Actually that's intended, just poorly explained.

Here's the missing details.
viewtopic.php?t=25014

Kerensky wrote:

dave123 wrote:Just tried the Norway campaign. On the 10th turn, I still had several (7, I think) objectives to capture and the game ended with an axis victory. That must be a bug.

I would like the ambush/rugged defense/evade notices to be bigger and bolder in text.

Also the ZOC for ships seems too tough. DD's and the like would always zip in and out of battles, and subs can go under any ship.

Actually that's intended, just poorly explained.

Here's the missing details.
viewtopic.php?t=25014

If that is intended, I'm not for the idea. I was enjoying the game and it just ended. It was turn 10, why not let me finish the game?

It seems my air units are not scouting their movement path, only where they stop. Is this intentional? In PG1, one of the main uses for fighters after enemy air is gone, or in bad weather, is to scout?

I hope this will be possible in the final release.

dave123 wrote:It seems my air units are not scouting their movement path, only where they stop. Is this intentional? In PG1, one of the main uses for fighters after enemy air is gone, or in bad weather, is to scout?

I hope this will be possible in the final release.

I noticed this as well. It seems as though land units do "scout" along their path, though. The entire path traveled (as indicated by the white arrow and including it's spotting range) becomes scouted and clear of the fog of war only for the land units. Another spotting quirk I've noticed is for your artillery. Normally, they can only spot 1. However, switch it half-track mode, it now has a 2 spotting range. Then, change back and you can attack a target you couldn't have seen without having another unit spot for you.

AgentX wrote:Another spotting quirk I've noticed is for your artillery. Normally, they can only spot 1. However, switch it half-track mode, it now has a 2 spotting range. Then, change back and you can attack a target you couldn't have seen without having another unit spot for you.

Interesting observation. Not a serious issue, but transports will probably be reduced to 1 spotting like the Opel Blitz.

dave123 wrote:It seems my air units are not scouting their movement path, only where they stop. Is this intentional? In PG1, one of the main uses for fighters after enemy air is gone, or in bad weather, is to scout?

I hope this will be possible in the final release.

Yes, this is intentional. This aspect of the game works similarly to PG2, but different from PG1. I think that it is better from both realism and gameplay points of view. Gameplay-wise, this makes recon units more important, and makes it more difficult to fight the war with planes only - they are more effective when supporting ground troops, not when they are flying on their own deep behine the line. As for realism, in PzC one hex is 10-20 km in diameter, and on this scale scouting huge portions of the map from the air should not be possible.

Fighters still have a spotting radius of 2, which can help a lot if used correctly. But fighters cannot replace recons either.

Rudankort wrote:

dave123 wrote:It seems my air units are not scouting their movement path, only where they stop. Is this intentional? In PG1, one of the main uses for fighters after enemy air is gone, or in bad weather, is to scout?

I hope this will be possible in the final release.

Yes, this is intentional. This aspect of the game works similarly to PG2, but different from PG1. I think that it is better from both realism and gameplay points of view. Gameplay-wise, this makes recon units more important, and makes it more difficult to fight the war with planes only - they are more effective when supporting ground troops, not when they are flying on their own deep behine the line. As for realism, in PzC one hex is 10-20 km in diameter, and on this scale scouting huge portions of the map from the air should not be possible.

Fighters still have a spotting radius of 2, which can help a lot if used correctly. But fighters cannot replace recons either.

Thanx for the answer. I think that makes enough sense.

I am having trouble telling core units from aux units. Could you make them a different shade? I don't want to waste money on the aux units.

Also, got a hero. Cool idea. Can they die? He is supposed to give me +3 defense, but I don't see it on the stats, do you have to mentally add the bonus? Can heroes die? I think that would be a good way to show the army deteriorating towards the end of the war. Do the SS units stay with you??

dave123 wrote:Also, got a hero. Cool idea. Can they die? He is supposed to give me +3 defense, but I don't see it on the stats, do you have to mentally add the bonus?

That's a good point. I'd also like to see the stats adjusted for your hero unit instead of mentally adding the bonus. Units can eventually pick up 3 heroes each, so there will be more adding as you go along. Plus, you'll have to go to the unit info panel frequently to check which heroes a unit has and what they do. It would be much easier if the unit info panel would already have the bonus added and reflected in your new stats. Maybe make the affected numbers a different color so you know that it was a hero bonus. So, in dave123's example, say his unit with the +3 defense normally has ground defense of 6 and air defense of 7. After getting his hero, the new stats would show as ground defense 9, air defense 10 in a color like blue or green to indicate they were modified by a hero.

dave123 wrote: I am having trouble telling core units from aux units. Could you make them a different shade? I don't want to waste money on the aux units.

We shall see what we can do.

dave123 wrote: Also, got a hero. Cool idea. Can they die? He is supposed to give me +3 defense, but I don't see it on the stats, do you have to mentally add the bonus? Can heroes die? I think that would be a good way to show the army deteriorating towards the end of the war. Do the SS units stay with you??

Dying heroes would be closer to reality, but most players would be extremely frustrated and hate us if their favorite heroes died on random occasions. So, the only way to lose your heroes is together with the unit where they belong. This is not so far from the truth too, because, as we know from history, prominent aces were very hard to kill. They could get into very dangerous situations, but thanks to their superior skill they still could survive the battle. So I think it is logical that the best soldiers are last to die, only after the rest unit is already destroyed.

About stats display, I agree with you. It would be better to sum the bonus with the basic stat and show throughout the UI.

After you get a bonus SS unit, it stays with you till the end of the game, unless it is destroyed.