Slitherine

Hi All,

I'm curious about list checking.

Lets say I submit my list for checking. It's exactly 800AP and a perfectly legal list. Then I turn up on the day and have a few extra bases which I 'accidentally (oops, silly me)' put on the table. I don't think I've EVER seen a list checked against what's on the table.

I'm not advocating this, I'd be really disappointed if someone ever did this in a competition game to me, but I'm just curious about a few things:

Firstly - how do you determine if the list that a person has submitted is the list that they are playing?
Secondly - what does the organizer do to someone who is 'discovered' to 'accidentally' have added a few bases?

The trouble is, if it is a genuine accident, I certainly wouldn't want a person to be severely punished for it (expulsion from the comp etc) but if it's a deliberate attempt at effectively cheating... well... that's a reasonable turn of events to my way of thinking (including loss of entry fee).

Anyone ever experienced this kind of dilemma?

Organisers should have copies of lists.

Suspicions are normally reported to organisers who can discretely check, suspicions are usually arouse by a quick count of points by those minded to or a good knowledge of the list.

What happens is up to organisers and would depend on if it materialy affected the game I suppose. They usualy reserve the right to kick you out the comp in extreme cases.

I don't have much tournament experience (2). But in games I generally hand my list to my opponent durring the deployment and call them out as I place them down in my quarters. aka "this is my LH, superior, bow swordman...this is my Armored Cav, Average, Bow, Swordsman. It's there on my list that I have X number of stands as I place them down, check what you see against the list I provided.

At one level we have to assume some level of truthfulness from our foes.

Even dave...? :)

I am sure no-one in Australia would ever do anything like that!

timmy1 wrote:Even dave...?

Difficult. Obdurate. Wrong. Defeated. Second Place. Drunk. But never untruthful to my knowledge.

tamerlane wrote:I am sure no-one in Australia would ever do anything like that!

You must remeber that Australia is populated entirely by convicts. The only people you can trust are the police!!!

ravenflight wrote:

tamerlane wrote:I am sure no-one in Australia would ever do anything like that!

You must remeber that Australia is populated entirely by convicts. The only people you can trust are the police!!!

No convicts in South Australia.

countadam wrote:

ravenflight wrote:

tamerlane wrote:I am sure no-one in Australia would ever do anything like that!

You must remeber that Australia is populated entirely by convicts. The only people you can trust are the police!!!

No convicts in South Australia.

Just more serial killers per capita than anywhere else in the country. And weird political leaders who wear pink hotpants to parliament

ravenflight wrote:

tamerlane wrote:I am sure no-one in Australia would ever do anything like that!

You must remeber that Australia is populated entirely by convicts. The only people you can trust are the police!!!

Aren't the police recruited from the convicts?

Back on topic,

At some tournaments I have been involved in there have been random 'spot checks' of army lists to ensure that what is on the table is what was entered. I am not aware of one of these checks ever picking anything up.

hammy wrote:Back on topic,

At some tournaments I have been involved in there have been random 'spot checks' of army lists to ensure that what is on the table is what was entered. I am not aware of one of these checks ever picking anything up.

Yes, I'm sure it would be rare, as I'm sure most people would prefer to lose a game than deliberately cheat, but in my 20 odd years of competition I have never had my list checked other than pre-comp 'legal list' type checks. That's like registering your car and then the police never checking to see if the plates match the vehicle registered. I'm sure they do random checks like that all the time.

As was said, at some point you have to trust your opponent...

ScotGore wrote:I don't have much tournament experience (2). But in games I generally hand my list to my opponent durring the deployment and call them out as I place them down in my quarters. aka "this is my LH, superior, bow swordman...this is my Armored Cav, Average, Bow, Swordsman. It's there on my list that I have X number of stands as I place them down, check what you see against the list I provided.

That's pretty rare. It's also not practical.

What if you have an ambush? What if you have an outflank? I don't really want my legal list to give away I've got 2bg's of knights, not 3 bg's of pike on outflank.

From my experience, most of the time this sort of list error occurs it is to the detriment of the person making the mistake.

ravenflight wrote:

ScotGore wrote:I don't have much tournament experience (2). But in games I generally hand my list to my opponent durring the deployment and call them out as I place them down in my quarters. aka "this is my LH, superior, bow swordman...this is my Armored Cav, Average, Bow, Swordsman. It's there on my list that I have X number of stands as I place them down, check what you see against the list I provided.

That's pretty rare. It's also not practical.

What if you have an ambush? What if you have an outflank? I don't really want my legal list to give away I've got 2bg's of knights, not 3 bg's of pike on outflank.

Not heard this done or asked for in FOG, some people do write down what you place on the table, but i think thats more to get an army list than to check what you've but down points wise.

I've seen this before, the guy was caught because it's easier to spot than you might think.

It might happen by accident, you'd be daft to do it deliberately:

- many comp players have a good feel for, say, what a late Ottoman will have in it. If there are more bases it will stick out.

- some opponents will write down exactly what you deploy, and often work out the points because they worry about ambushes/flank marches.

- the advantage of a few extra bases is small. the downside of getting caught out are large. especially if you can't run quickly.

ravenflight wrote:Hi All,

I'm curious about list checking.

Lets say I submit my list for checking. It's exactly 800AP and a perfectly legal list. Then I turn up on the day and have a few extra bases which I 'accidentally (oops, silly me)' put on the table. I don't think I've EVER seen a list checked against what's on the table.

I'm not advocating this, I'd be really disappointed if someone ever did this in a competition game to me, but I'm just curious about a few things:

Firstly - how do you determine if the list that a person has submitted is the list that they are playing?
Secondly - what does the organizer do to someone who is 'discovered' to 'accidentally' have added a few bases?

The trouble is, if it is a genuine accident, I certainly wouldn't want a person to be severely punished for it (expulsion from the comp etc) but if it's a deliberate attempt at effectively cheating... well... that's a reasonable turn of events to my way of thinking (including loss of entry fee).

Anyone ever experienced this kind of dilemma?

If an army with more BG on the table than on the official list is broken the umpire know that there is a problem as the software we use advice that the attotion points are more than the BG

Other tham this its difficolt but when a player use a well known army many players can undertsand if there are too many points, I've already seen (a LRR player haven't paid for his fortified campo)

grahambriggs wrote:............. especially if you can't run quickly.