Slitherine

Are these more useful as armoured or unarmoured?

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Are these more useful as armoured or unarmoured?

Unarmoured.

Yup, 36 pts for a 4 base bg that can support up to 3 or 4 superior bgs.

Now when can we order some?

Hazelbark, as soon as they are made.

Infantry are being cast now, so the next type to be made will be the shooting cav.

Thanks for the answers.

rbodleyscott wrote:

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Are these more useful as armoured or unarmoured?

Unarmoured.

Odd given that everyone from Tilly to Montecuccoli by way of Wallenstein & Piccolomini considered the unarmoured arkebusier zu pferd to be useless in battle

Obviously Tilly et al. never had the tasctical insight of RBS & co !

DanielS wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote:

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Are these more useful as armoured or unarmoured?

Unarmoured.

Odd given that everyone from Tilly to Montecuccoli by way of Wallenstein & Piccolomini considered the unarmoured arkebusier zu pferd to be useless in battle

Well of course, and that is why they are useless "in battle" in FOGR. But they are compulsory in many lists (because they were used historically despite being useless), and they make reasonably good supports and filler as long as the enemy does not break through the front line and get to them.

The armoured ones are still nearly useless "in battle" but cost more.

If something is compulsory, and useless as front-line troops anyway, you want it to be as cheap as possible!

rbodleyscott wrote:

DanielS wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote: Unarmoured.

Odd given that everyone from Tilly to Montecuccoli by way of Wallenstein & Piccolomini considered the unarmoured arkebusier zu pferd to be useless in battle

Well of course, and that is why they are useless "in battle" in FOGR. But they are compulsory in many lists (because they were used historically despite being useless), and they make reasonably good supports and filler as long as the enemy does not break through the front line and get to them.

The armoured ones are still nearly useless "in battle" but cost more.

If something is compulsory, and useless as front-line troops anyway, you want it to be as cheap as possible!

Disagree - play the period, not the rules

Three wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote:

DanielS wrote: Odd given that everyone from Tilly to Montecuccoli by way of Wallenstein & Piccolomini considered the unarmoured arkebusier zu pferd to be useless in battle

Well of course, and that is why they are useless "in battle" in FOGR. But they are compulsory in many lists (because they were used historically despite being useless), and they make reasonably good supports and filler as long as the enemy does not break through the front line and get to them.

The armoured ones are still nearly useless "in battle" but cost more.

If something is compulsory, and useless as front-line troops anyway, you want it to be as cheap as possible!

Disagree - play the period, not the rules

Absolutely. Historically they were used because they were cheap, and useful in supporting roles.

My bandolliere reiter (Kraberg rgt) and cuirassiers have the best stats of my swedish cav.
The reiter are always armoured, perform well probably because they are engaged in combat with caution and only at the right time and many times with the support of comm. shoot.
They are very helpful in support role and expecially against med/light Troops
Regards
Errico

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Hazelbark, as soon as they are made.

Infantry are being cast now, so the next type to be made will be the shooting cav.

Thanks for the answers.

Excellent news. Despite the thread here suggesting they are almost useless I plan to get quite a few of these when they are released. They add a lot of flavour and I can see applications for them.


Cheers...................Geoff

If you refight the battles of the period and bin the points system there is no choice but to have quite a few of them! They can be useful, and recently used them to lure enemy cuirassiers into a trap!

Against the trend, I always take them armoured if I can. They are cheap as chips for their armament, and with the judicius application of a supporting general can go toe to toe with other armoured once their job of shooting in the Kuirrasiers is done, and will last longer than their unarmoured bretheren. For 8 more points a unit, well worth their pay.

Well there you have it, it seems that khurasan needs to make both armoured and unarmoured versions.

No surprise there then.

I think what I'm going to do is have the rear rankers unarmoured, holding their firearm at attention, so they are not blowing the heads off the men in front.

The front rankers will be commander (breastplate), standard bearer (buffcoat only), and four breakwaist models. This will make it possible for them to be in forward firing poses, and will also allow them to have either a breastplate (armoured), or a buffcoat (unarmoured)., depending on which upper bodies you select.

The set will come with both upper body parts (four armoured and four unarmoured), I think, if it can be squeezed on the mold.

Aren't the value of bandoliere reiter significantly increased if combined with commanded shot?

They are indeed, though if my horse are being used offensively from the start I tend not to use them together; of more use on a defending flank. Commanded shot have their own vulnerabilities when overlapped, of course, as the cropheads showed me this very evening. You could offer the regiments as mixes or all of one type; I 'd quite happily buy a unit in either or both poses.(and will )