Slitherine

Hi - could someone outline what are the conditions (both date-based triggers and DoW-based and any other triggers) for Axis Minor power (i.e. Finland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria) and Italian entry, both in CEAW GS 1.07 and in 2.0?

This is a little unclear to me, for example, if Germany DOWs the Soviet Union early (pre-1941), would any of the Axis minors activate? If so, would they gain their aircraft units on activation? In GS 2.0 can the Soviet Union DOW any potential Axis Minors (or Persia) before a German DOW on Soviet Union (though, apart from Finland, this would technically be breaking the Nazi-Soviet pact, so perhaps this is not possible still)? If so, what is the effect of this e.g. does Germany automatically DOW the Soviet Union if, say, the Soviet Union DoW Romania?

In 2.0 is there a chance other minors (I'm particularly thinking of Spain and Portugal, which had Fascist dictators, but I guess its not beyond the realms of feasibilty that Turkey, Sweden, Yugoslavia or even Iraq mght join the Axis under certain conditions)?

oxford_guy wrote:Hi - could someone outline what are the conditions (both date-based triggers and DoW-based and any other triggers) for Axis Minor power (i.e. Finland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria) and Italian entry, both in CEAW GS 1.07 and in 2.0?

This is a little unclear to me, for example, if Germany DOWs the Soviet Union early (pre-1941), would any of the Axis minors activate? If so, would they gain their aircraft units on activation? In GS 2.0 can the Soviet Union DOW any potential Axis Minors (or Persia) before a German DOW on Soviet Union (though, apart from Finland, this would technically be breaking the Nazi-Soviet pact, so perhaps this is not possible still)? If so, what is the effect of this e.g. does Germany automatically DOW the Soviet Union if, say, the Soviet Union DoW Romania?

In 2.0 is there a chance other minors (I'm particularly thinking of Spain and Portugal, which had Fascist dictators, but I guess its not beyond the realms of feasibilty that Turkey, Sweden, Yugoslavia or even Iraq mght join the Axis under certain conditions)?

Anyone?

I can tell you this much: Date based triggers in CEAW and GS 1.07 are in the *.SCN files (EG: '1939.scn'), the code at the end of the file that looks something like this:
0 205 875 100 0 1058 11 100 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 3 0 true false 100 true true 2090 11 30
1 20 215 150 0 358 1 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 100 true true 1940 5 7
2 15 5484 600 75 6280 10 45 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 1 true false 200 true true 2090 11 31
3 0 315 200 15 420 5 30 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 true false 200 true true 2090 11 31
4 0 8670 200 85 9784 40 4 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 2 2 1 false false 200 true true 1941 10 29
5 0 9400 50 120 9882 0 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 false false 200 true true 1941 9 20
6 0 87 0 0 87 0 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
7 0 83 0 0 83 0 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
8 0 38 0 0 38 0 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
9 0 29 0 0 29 0 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
10 0 63 0 0 63 0 20 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
11 0 76 0 0 76 0 20 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 false false 100 false true 1941 5 22
12 0 90 0 0 100 0 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 false false 100 false true 1940 9 5
13 0 177 0 0 196 0 20 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 100 false true 1940 10 14
14 0 63 0 0 63 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 100 false true 1941 1 22
15 0 154 0 0 154 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
16 0 70 0 0 70 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
17 0 175 0 0 175 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
18 0 130 0 0 130 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 200 false true 2090 11 31
19 0 41 0 0 41 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 200 false true 1941 4 13
20 0 255 0 0 255 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
21 0 76 0 0 76 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
22 0 29 0 0 29 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 300 false true 2090 11 31
23 0 333 0 0 348 0 40 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 false false 200 false true 1939 8 1
24 0 89 0 0 89 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false true 300 false true 2090 11 31
25 0 42 0 0 42 0 20 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 false false 100 false true 1940 8 22
26 0 50 5 0 50 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 300 false false 2090 11 31
27 0 11 0 0 11 0 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false true 300 false false 2090 11 31
28 0 27 0 0 27 0 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false true 300 false false 2090 11 31
29 0 31 0 0 31 0 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false true 300 false false 2090 11 31
30 0 9 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false true 300 false false 2090 11 31
31 0 200 0 0 200 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 200 false true 1940 7 6
32 0 35 0 0 35 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false true 300 false true 2090 11 31
33 0 115 0 0 115 0 30 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false false 200 false true 1941 2 14
34 0 200 0 0 200 0 0 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 0 3 2 false false 200 false true 2090 11 31
35 0 368 0 0 368 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false true 300 false false 2090 11 31
36 0 150 5 0 150 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 false true 300 false false 2090 11 31

The 1st number in the above code is the country ID, based on this table:
COUNTRY ID KEY
GERMANY: 0
ITALY: 1
UK: 2
FRANCE: 3
USA: 4
USSR: 5
HOLLAND: 6
BELGIUM: 7
DENMARK: 8
NORWAY: 9
SWEDEN: 10
FINLAND: 11
HUNGARY: 12
ROMANIA: 13
BULGARIA: 14
YUGOSLAVIA: 15
GREECE: 16
TURKEY: 17
PERSIA: 18
IRAQ: 19
SPAIN: 20
PORTUGAL: 21
IRELAND: 22
POLAND: 23
FREE ALGERIA: 24
SWITZERLAND: 25
NO_COUNTRY: 26
ESTONIA: 27
LATVIA: 28
LITHUANIA: 29
LIBYA: 30
EGYPT: 31
SYRIA: 32
CANADA: 33
CROATIA: 34
UKRAINE: 35
SPARE_COUNTRY: 36

The last 3 values on each row (separated by a space) is the date a neutral country will enter the war, with a +/- of about a month (random variable hard coded in game). Note that the months are listed from 0-11 where 0 = January. The 6th last value (separated by a space) represents whether the country is an axis (100), allied (200), or neutral (300) country. In the example above from a user made 1939 scenario, Switzerland (country ID #25) joins the Axis on about July 22nd, 1940.

There is some logic in vanilla CEAW that impacts the join date, like an early Barbarossa's impact on Finland's join date, and the date France falls. There are more join date modifiers in GS 1.07 and it sounds like there are even more in GS v2.0. That said, I have not heard anything about adding a diplomacy angle to the game so I doubt there is new logic for historic neutrals Turkey, Sweden, Portugal, Spain, Switzerland, etc.. I'm sure one of the GS folks will comment further if that is not an accurate guess regarding GS v2.0.

Thanks, though looks complicated to work out what's going on here...

Finland will enter the war when Germany declares war on USSR if the Finnish Winter war has been fought (starts on turn 4). Otherwise they activate on June 22nd +/- 1 turn.

Hungary will activate when Germany DoW's Yugoslavia provided the 2nd Vienna Award has been signed (happens late August 1940). Otherwise they join October 5th 1940 +/- 1 turn

Romania wil activate when Germany DoW's Yugoslavia provided the 2nd Vienna Award has been signed (happens late August 1940). Otherwise they join November 14th 1940 +/- 1 turn

Bulgaria will acticate when Germany DoW's Greece provided the 2nd Vienna Award has been signed (happens late August 1940). Otherwise they join February 22nd 1941 +/- 1 turn

If Germany has DoW'ed Norway or Sweden then an extra German corps will spawn in northern Finland. If Germany has DoW'ed Yugoslavia then an extra Hungarian corps and 2 extra Romania corps will spawn (will arrive as reinforcements in July 1943 otherwise). If Germany has Dow'ed Greece then 2 extra Bulgarian corps will spawn (will arrive as reinforcements in July 1943 otherwise).

The Axis minor powers except Finland will NOT join the Axis if Germany DoW's Russia early.

Thanks Stauffenberg, that's really useful, I didn't know some of these things (especially about the extra corps), just a few questions/observations:

Stauffenberg wrote:Finland will enter the war when Germany declares war on USSR if the Finnish Winter war has been fought (starts on turn 4).

So at the start of Axis Turn 4, if Germany DOW on USSR (yes I realise this is probably a stupid thing to do, but I just want to get my head around this), then would Finland join Germany on that turn (and be able to move that turn)?

Stauffenberg wrote: Otherwise they activate on June 22nd +/- 1 turn.

I assume you mean June 22nd 1941 +/- 1 turn? If (say) German declared war on USSR on turn 3, will Finland still activate for the Axis on June 22nd 1941 +/- 1 turn?

Stauffenberg wrote: Hungary will activate when Germany DoW's Yugoslavia provided the 2nd Vienna Award has been signed (happens late August 1940). Otherwise they join October 5th 1940 +/- 1 turn

Romania wil activate when Germany DoW's Yugoslavia provided the 2nd Vienna Award has been signed (happens late August 1940). Otherwise they join November 14th 1940 +/- 1 turn

Bulgaria will acticate when Germany DoW's Greece provided the 2nd Vienna Award has been signed (happens late August 1940). Otherwise they join February 22nd 1941 +/- 1 turn

So if Germany Dow's Yugoslavia/Greece on (or is it after?) the 26th August 1940 turn then Hungary and Romania / Bulgaria (as appropriate) will activate that turn?

Stauffenberg wrote: If Germany has DoW'ed Norway or Sweden then an extra German corps will spawn in northern Finland. If Germany has DoW'ed Yugoslavia then an extra Hungarian corps and 2 extra Romania corps will spawn (will arrive as reinforcements in July 1943 otherwise). If Germany has Dow'ed Greece then 2 extra Bulgarian corps will spawn (will arrive as reinforcements in July 1943 otherwise).

I didn't know that! Does this apply under GS 1.07? It is an extra incentive for attacking Norway (in effect worth 35 + 8 = 43 pps at least), - when would this bonus corps in Finland appear? The early extra corps for Hungary/Romania/Gree are also an extra incentive or attacking Yugoslavia/Greece, though I guess you get them anyway eventually. Do all these corps spawn at full strength?

Stauffenberg wrote: The Axis minor powers except Finland will NOT join the Axis if Germany DoW's Russia early.

Do you mean that they will never join the Axis, or only under the usual circumstances (the Yugo/Greece or date triggers)? The former would be harsh! Thanks again