Slitherine

Had my first FOG R game last night using a mocked up Caroline Imperialist. Very good fun, loved the mass death from shooting and this was only with Arquebus never mind musket. There was always lots going on and the game moved quickly.

I was not overly convinced about Early Tercios though. Although having no flanks or rear and being able to shoot in all directions was fun I didnt think it was particularly cost effective. Also having to fight with the MF alongside the pike didnt make them too effective in combat against Kiels. This is the first time I have used them so wouldnt want to be too judgemntal and they did look great grinding forwards.

Has anybody else have any views on these behemoths?

Thanks

Matthew

MatthewP wrote:I was not overly convinced about Early Tercios though. Although having no flanks or rear and being able to shoot in all directions was fun I didnt think it was particularly cost effective.

They aren't meant to be fully cost-effective - there has to be some reason for a tendency to change to later smaller formations.

I used them at Roll Call in 2009 and found them quite effective. They beat timmy's keils. The main problem is the rest of the army which
(a) lacks the points used up by the tercios
(b) tends to comprise troop-types that are significantly less than optimally effective if playing out of their time period.

That makes sence. Thanks for the reply. There is something magnificent about watching these massive battlegroups moving forward. They might be worth it just for the visuals.

The Tercio, particularly if Superior, is very tough and does resemble a moving fort, dominating its area of the field. It takes few shooting cohesion tests, and it loses a base about every other turn but is able to keep doing so through the whole battle.

The Spanish Tercio on the Catholic side of the French Wars of Religion scenario we've done a few times has fared well at beating off attacks from one or more directions. In the last scenario game, which was as usual well balanced and with expectations of victory swinging back and forth over the course of the battle, the Tercio crushed the Swiss, beat off further attacks from various directions, and ended the battle able to go where it pleased - the Protestants having nothing they'd dare to throw at it and unable to catch the other Catholic BGs, who were too battered to tackle the remaining French. Accordingly, the Catholics were deemed to have claimed the spoils from the field and marched off the battlefield, observed by the Protestants.

My personal preference for and end-of-the-line BG is the Late Tercio, which has most the the same advantages but is much cheaper so one can afford two, or more other troops.

MikeK wrote:My personal preference for and end-of-the-line BG is the Late Tercio, which has most the the same advantages but is much cheaper so one can afford two, or more other troops.

That has been my assumption but i've alway wimped out and gone for the 4 shot 2 pike.

My question is can the late tercio stand up to the keil (or an early with only 6 pike).

How important is that 4th rank POA in the match up?

The 4th rank POA and the ability to expand out into a useful ++ overlap is what the Keil is all about. It needs to start with extra depth to be sure it can use these advantages. To deal with an expected 2/3 base loss from shooting with arquebus coming in (closer to 1 base expected with the extra rounds from musket), it needs to be at least 10 bases if 2-wide and 14 if 3-wide to allow for a few casualties. The 2-wide Keil with its + POA enjoys hits on 12 pips on the dice in Impact vs. 8 for the Tercio (assuming 3 deep Tercio pikes) and 12 vs. 10 in Melee with a Late Tercio or Pike and Shot (16 to 10 if there is room to push a halberdier into overlap) and 12 vs 12 against a 14-base Early Tercio because the tercio can slide over if necessary to get all 4 files into the fight.

Those halberdiers/swordsmen get no POA fighting Pike or Shot frontally, so expanding out one spare base to match a tercio file adds 3 pips for the Keil, but 4 for the tercio since its overlap used to be fighting at a negative POA vs. 4 ranks, but now has 2 bases at even POA against the overlapping base. 2 bases need to expand out to give the Keil a net gain (+6 pips vs. +4 pips for the tercio).

The concern for the Keil is being fully committed and losing dice or POAs when it suffers base losses. The 14 base tercio has lots of rear rank bases so it maintains its POA. The Late Tercio can lose 3 bases without losing dice, so has some staying power. If the Keil doesn't win quickly and the fight becomes a matter of attrition, the Early Tercio prevails by numbers (which is what I've usually seen with ET vs. Keils of 12).

A larger Keil attacking on a 3-wide frontage is much more dangerous in terms of getting and keeping an advantage, and since the tercio won't have an unengaged file to slide the Keil may be able to get and keep a base in ++ overlap. However, it still has the issue of attrition sapping its POA advantage.

All of this is of course in isolation and ignores the effects of other units on both sides, particularly the preliminary shooting, but still interesting.

I would agree with Richard, what makes the Early Tercio effective is what you get round it. 2 Superior ET BGs chew a lot of points. Provided you can get enough other things to threaten the flanks of the Keil before they contact, the Tercio can win. However if you let the Keil march forwards unmolested you are in trouble. Richard and Nik used shooting LH, Gendarmes and Artillery.