Slitherine

Hi,

I've been looking at unit/BG size. As Tim pointed out recently the optimum BG size is 10 bases, with 8 being the 2nd best choice. Army lists may restrict this somewhat.

For bowmen 4 or 8 seems to be the best size (assuming double ranked) as 6 means that only 1 out of the 3 rear rank will shoot.

For Autobreak calculations, there is really no difference between an elite unit or a Superior Unit. Despite the % difference on p57 in reality for units less than 10 bases the losses are exactly the same. And as I've noted above, units of 10 or more bases are not common, with large elite/superior units being fairly unusual.

Thus we get for Elite AND Superior:
2 bases will AB on 1
4 bases will AB on 3
6 bases will AB on 4
8 bases will AB on 5

It does make a difference for Average & Poor units, where the AB limits get lower.

The point is that there is an INTENTION that AB is different for Superior vs Elite, but the mathematics and unit sizes will result in no real differnce.

Neil

I've been looking at unit/BG size. As Tim pointed out recently the optimum BG size is 10 bases, with 8 being the 2nd best choice. Army lists may restrict this somewhat.

4 also has significant advantages:
- 2 hits required for 1 HP3B but smaller target than 6 base BG so less likely to suffer 1HP3B from shooting or close combat
- Less likely to suffer base losses as usually suffers less hits - which are mitigated by +2 on death roll except in losing close combat
- Less likely to suffer >= 2 more hits than inflicted in close combat
- Manouvrability
And disadvantage:
- 1/4 lost after one base loss

6 bases in 3 ranks has similar advantages to a 4 base BG, but one lost base isn't a problem, and there is the option to expand in a melee.

I don't think the pro and cons of different size BGs are clear cut enough to be a problem. I started out thinking that I wanted my BGs to be big, but have gradually gone over to smaller ones.

There are pros and cons to every size.

neilhammond wrote:For bowmen 4 or 8 seems to be the best size (assuming double ranked) as 6 means that only 1 out of the 3 rear rank will shoot.

This is true only if the BG all shoots at one target that is not being shot at by anything else. Shooting is done per target and dice are calculated accordingly. Thus two half dice from different BGs shooting at the same target make a whole dice. I am pretty sure this is mentioned in the rules somewhere. If not, we must clarify it.

Thus we get for Elite AND Superior:
2 bases will AB on 1
4 bases will AB on 3
6 bases will AB on 4
8 bases will AB on 5

It does make a difference for Average & Poor units, where the AB limits get lower.

The point is that there is an INTENTION that AB is different for Superior vs Elite, but the mathematics and unit sizes will result in no real differnce.

I don't think we find this too troubling. If it makes people feel better we can change the autobreak % to be the same for elite and superior.

There are all sorts of +- for BG size.

What I find satisfying so far is that nobody has a definitive answer to what is best.

I have played lots now through the development process and I find myself with few fixed guidelines. The only one really is that missile troops in 6s are not as good as shooting as 4 and 8s so I tend to go for 4s with good quality missile troops and 8s with weak ones (due to rear rank halving effect noted by Neil).

10 is better than 12? Until you lose a base......then its worse.....so on balance I prefer 12 if liekly to be shot at much, 10 if not. Not sure if I don't know what I am up against therefore.

Lots going on. Good news is no-one can say aha this is best so far.....

Also a statistical test showed that an 8 vs a 4s is almost exactly a 50/50 tussle overall in AOW....

Si

rbodleyscott wrote:

I've been looking at unit/BG size. As Tim pointed out recently the optimum BG size is 10 bases, with 8 being the 2nd best choice. Army lists may restrict this somewhat.

4 also has significant advantages:
- 2 hits required for 1 HP3B but smaller target than 6 base BG so less likely to suffer 1HP3B from shooting or close combat

Eh? Surely the opposite? A unit of 4 needs 1 hit to have 1HP3B.

Or am I calculating 1 per 3 complete bases instead of 1 per 3 or less?

madaxeman wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote:

I've been looking at unit/BG size. As Tim pointed out recently the optimum BG size is 10 bases, with 8 being the 2nd best choice. Army lists may restrict this somewhat.

4 also has significant advantages:
- 2 hits required for 1 HP3B but smaller target than 6 base BG so less likely to suffer 1HP3B from shooting or close combat

Eh? Surely the opposite? A unit of 4 needs 1 hit to have 1HP3B.

Or am I calculating 1 per 3 complete bases instead of 1 per 3 or less?

It is "at least 1 HP3B" - which is the same as your second option.

1 HP3B on 4 elements is 1.33 hits - hence you need 2 to trigger it.