Slitherine

I have a 2 wide by 4 deep BG of pikes that is threatened in front and rear by 2x2 BGs of cataphracts.

The pikes pass a CMT and form orb. They remain in their 2x4 but the last two ranks turn to face the rear.

When one cataphract BG charges the orb, the pikes will count 1/4 of their bases against it. So 2 bases fight with 1 base counting as a front rank base.

Since the orb can not be overlapped and only one base counts as a front rank base, only 1 file of the cataphracts will be able to count as fighting the orb. Thus, 2 dice for each front rank base in the impact phase and 2 dice (1 for each base) for each side in the melee phase.

The pikes do not get to count their own pike POA's so will get no POA's in either combat.

The cataphracts must count the pikes as steady and (until such time as the pikes drop a cohesion level) thus loose their "Lancers" Impact POA and their "Swordsmen" melee POA. It seems the POA's will be even in the impact phase and the cataphracts will be +1 for better armor in the melee phase.

Have I got all that right, or have I missed a few things?

Thanks, Terry G.

I believe that is exactly right and exactly as written

Sure haven't seen it used much in all our games. Usually stuff gets into it before it has a chance to form.

Forming orb actually came up in one of my games this weekend.

I agree that the OP is correct, but note the following:

I have a 2 wide by 4 deep BG of pikes that is threatened in front and rear by 2x2 BGs of cataphracts.

If "threatened" means within 2 MU (i.e. inside the RA), then the pikes may not form an orb.

spikemesq wrote:If "threatened" means within 2 MU (i.e. inside the RA), then the pikes may not form an orb.

Why not. As long as they do not contract they can do it as a CMT. And you can't do it if there is no enemy in 6 MU. So against cavalry you'd never have chance to form it.

philqw78 wrote:

spikemesq wrote:If "threatened" means within 2 MU (i.e. inside the RA), then the pikes may not form an orb.

Why not. As long as they do not contract they can do it as a CMT. And you can't do it if there is no enemy in 6 MU. So against cavalry you'd never have chance to form it.

The RA is always 2MU, so I don't follow your cavalry comment. Enemy mounted at charge range are within 6MU but beyond the RA.

The rules for forming an orb state that it begins with a stationary contraction which you cannot do inside an RA.

In my game the BG was 3-wide, and I see your point about the 2-wide BG in the OP. I suppose if the "stationary contraction" element of the move is only to reduce to a 2-wide formation, then you are correct. OTOH, if forming orb always begins with a "stationary contraction" no matter the initial width (don't have the rules handy), then it breaks the RA limits.

See point 19 in the FAQ Spike. Explains it fully.

The thing about never having a chance to form it if cav were around is they start 7MU away, then move to 2 MU away, putting you in RA, you cannot form ORB, ever.

philqw78 wrote:See point 19 in the FAQ Spike. Explains it fully.

The thing about never having a chance to form it if cav were around is they start 7MU away, then move to 2 MU away, putting you in RA, you cannot form ORB, ever.

Presumably it is possible by suitably devious use of LF skirmishers deployed 3MU away from your pike/spearmen...although it appears that the main attribute of orb is to die more slowly than being hit in the flank, which isn't exactly a recommendation.