Slitherine

Hi all,

I've just been granted access to the forum, having been accepted onto the beta program last week. I received the rules (v4.04, army lists v 1.09, reference sheets v 4.09) a few days ago, and so these are my (almost) first impressions...having only just gained access to the forum, and having had the rules for a week or so, I've actually read through them few times now.

Firstly, a very brief backgrounder.

I come at this with about 15 year??™s experience of Warhammer Fantasy, spread over the 23 years since its first publication. Also, I've been reading the DBM rules on the odd occasion, for about 18 months. I've now watched three games, and participated in two. I like it, but it baffles.

So.

My very first thought on flicking through the rules was 'thank god for tables'. And I wasn't disappointed. My big gripe with DBM is the unnecessary attempt to describe all of the tabular information in words, rather than simply constructing tables. AoW is immediately much more tractable, just from this fact alone.

I also found the text to be clear enough to provide a clear understanding, without being too terse or too verbose.

My only slight gripe was that after reading the first three 'Quick...' sections (Setup, Terrain Placement, Deployment), I felt slightly disoriented then dropping straight into 'Playing the Game'. I personally would have liked some information about troop types and organisation, and the role of generals before getting into the mechanics. I can't provide a reference (I'll do a more detailed report in a day or so), but I seem to recall that the first time I encountered the concept of generals being IC, FC or TC, I had no idea what it meant, and had to wait till I had read more before it made sense. Of course, I may have turned a page whilst dozing!

Perhaps the most telling summary is that with DBM, it took me a year to decide that I need to find someone who already knew the rules, and then I felt I need to watch three games before trying it out myself. Even then, I've only played two games of doubles, and still would not feel confident to play on my own (and certainly not against another newcomer).

In contrast Syd, Graham (co-beta testers, almost identical backgrounds) and I are going to play our first game of AoW tomorrow, and feel quite comfortable doing so!

We will look forward to hearing about the first clash of arms.

Si

Well, it dodn't quite go to plan...we'd arranged to have about 5 houts of time, but in the end, only ended up with two. Because it had taken me so long to work out the points for the armies, I didnt want to waste any further time in figuring out how to fairly reduce the armies, so we went ahead with 800pts.

Sid (aka Gary) played Late Republican Romans, and Graham Mamluk Egyptians, I, being the only one of the three who had bothered to read the rules more than once, acted as a talking rulebook (refering constantly, of course, to the printed copy).

In the two hours, we really only got in two bounds each of shooting, two impact combat, and two bounds of melee, so sadly, there's not much on which to comment! This si opartly because neither would heed my appeals to deploy in Battle Lines, and so movement across the table was largely in single moves.

It's ashame, because could we have continued, the next bound would have seen about 75% of the BGs on the table become involved in combat! As it is, Syd had a BG of Cavalry become disrupted, by a BG of Grahams cavalry (can't remember of hand what type) and another BG of cavalry loose a base to a BG of Grahams Elite cavalry.


One comment: It wasn't until we resolved the first round of shooting (which luckily happened first) that I finally understood impact and melee. I thought from reading the rules and looking at the worked examples that each base-to-base combat was rolled for seperately, and you were trying to beat each others dice (after applying POAs)! It was only when I looked up the scores required to hit in shooting, that I noticed the column in the same table for HtH! I haven't had chance to go through the rules again properly, but a quick scout last night - in the midst of trying to answer all questions coming at me - did not reveal anywhere where the manner of rolling the dice - that you are aiming to achieve a set score, and not dicing off - is mentioned explicitly.

I picked up this (apparently) incorrect understanding from looking at the diagrams for worked examples of combat. As the scores are printed within each base, I assumed that each base was diced for seperately, and hence that the score for a base went against the score of the base it is fighting. In all examples bar one, the scores used in the examples supported this hypothesis. The 'bar one' is in the multiple combat example, where two scores of six both score hits...I was initially confused by this, then just thought it must be a typo!

Also, there are two questions arising:

1) Do generals not attached to BGs/BLs (asuming this is allowed!) move as if there are single element BG's of their type - i.e. do they face the same restrictions on movement for CMT's, or do they move more like independent characters in Warhammer?

2) If a general joins a BG/BL in the normal movement phase (assuming this is allowed), with that BG/BL having already made a move, is the BG/BL now permitted to make a second move (with CMT), as they now have a general in tow?


The overall feel was that we far, far preferred the ease of the game to the confusion of DBM, and Graham and I preferred the abstract level of combat as compared to Warhammer.

General impressions are very positive from Graham and I, though Syd was quite distressed by the whole exercise...but then he always is when learning new rules! His cursing and promises to 'never go near the bl*&$^ng thing again' are very likely to turn into curiosity, and then reluctant acceptance as he watches Graham and I play our next couple of games.

Cheers

Alas battles rarely go to plan......thanks for the game attempt...I don't think anyone has managed a game in 2 hours yet. Terry and I have the current record, I think, at 2 hrs 10 mins! A shame you didn't have longer, but the first try is always difficult - I well remember my first attempts at DBM beign chaos. Sounds like you did pretty well for two hours to me

A good point on the diagrams and examples which could suggest it is done by file when this is not the case. We'll alter the visiual of this when we get to it. The words seem to relect the bulk roll.

Not deploying in battlelines will make the game very slow for you and you tend to get out manouvred. If both sides do it the game tends to be slow. So you are correct on this one.

On your questions

• A BG must have a general with them for both moves to get the 2nd march move.
  
  Generals move as independent characters at a speed of 7 - so they can keep pace with anything and move on their own in the interbound

.

If correctly positioned therefore a general may make 3 moves early inthe game - 2 to march with a BL and then make a move in the interbound.

On your BLs note that the size is limited by the command radiuis of the generals type. So every BG must be at least partly inside 4MU if led by a TC etc.

Have fun. Hope you can manage longer next time and that the initial dip lessens the pain barrier.

Cheers

Si