Slitherine

Gentlemen,

Am I correct in assuming that a spear unit in DISRUPTED status retains the spear bonus? I ask because I had always assumed not, but a careful reading of the POA's doesn't mention DISRUPTED as a reason for losing the spear POA.

Thanks,

Steady means not suffering from disruption or fragmentation. Offensive or defensive spearmen retain their POA if disrupted, but would not cancel the POA of swordsmen and lancers. Also, mounted facing steady foot must break off in the JAP.

disrupted spear retains it's spear bonus but if opponents are using sword they now get the bonus, this is what impact foot are looking for

Anleiher wrote:Gentlemen,

Am I correct in assuming that a spear unit in DISRUPTED status retains the spear bonus? I ask because I had always assumed not, but a careful reading of the POA's doesn't mention DISRUPTED as a reason for losing the spear POA.

Thanks,

Yes, disrupted spear still get a + POA. The rules are very clear on this point.

Disrupted spear are not "steady spear" so swordsmen get a + POA against disrupted spear.

disorder troop are not steady too.

IIRC there is a table in the Battle Group Deterioration section of the rules which shows a definition of Steady - which is basically a BG that has not suffered cohesion loss and is not disordered in any way.

IIRC there is a table in the Battle Group Deterioration section of the rules which shows a definition of Steady - which is basically a BG that has not suffered cohesion loss and is not disordered in any way.

You do RC - Page 24

nikgaukroger wrote:IIRC there is a table in the Battle Group Deterioration section of the rules which shows a definition of Steady - which is basically a BG that has not suffered cohesion loss and is not disordered in any way.

In FoG there are 4 "cohesion levels"
1. Steady
2. Disrupted
3. Fragmented
4. Broken

The original post here really had two questions:

Q1. What constitutes "steady"?
A. All BG's whose cohesion level is not disrupted, fragmented or broken

Q2. Does a spear BG with a cohesion level of "disrupted" still get a + POA?
A. Yes

zoltan wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote:IIRC there is a table in the Battle Group Deterioration section of the rules which shows a definition of Steady - which is basically a BG that has not suffered cohesion loss and is not disordered in any way.

In FoG there are 4 "cohesion levels"
1. Steady
2. Disrupted
3. Fragmented
4. Broken

The original post here really had two questions:

Q1. What constitutes "steady"?
A. All BG's whose cohesion level is not disrupted, fragmented or broken

Q2. Does a spear BG with a cohesion level of "disrupted" still get a + POA?
A. Yes

Which is all true but ovelooks the fact that disordered troops are not steady........

A BG is STEADY if it is not anything else i.e. not disrupted, disordered, fragmented, severley disordered or broken.

hammy wrote:
Which is all true but ovelooks the fact that disordered troops are not steady........

A BG is STEADY if it is not anything else i.e. not disrupted, disordered, fragmented, severley disordered or broken.

I disagree! ;->)

Steady is explicitly defined as one of 4 Cohesion Levels.

Disordered and severly disordered are not listed as Cohesion Levels.

Spear/pike who are (merely) disordered are therefore steady (don't complain to me!).

Spear/pike who are (merely) disordered (and not severly disordered) still get a + POA.

Swordsmen fighting (merely) disordered spear/pike still get a + POA as their disordered opponents are steady.

I disagree! ;->)

Steady is explicitly defined as one of 4 Cohesion Levels.

Disordered and severly disordered are not listed as Cohesion Levels.

I am sorry that you disagree and I suggest you read Page 133 - this clearly states that Disorder and Severe Disorder mean that a BG can not count as Steady.

Please read page 133 - table at the top.

I foresee random rulings at the IWC ...

I foresee random rulings at the IWC ...

Now don't be unkind Nik - there's still time for us to get Zoltan on the right track -

petedalby wrote:

I foresee random rulings at the IWC ...

Now don't be unkind Nik - there's still time for us to get Zoltan on the right track -

Or the IWF could fly us out 1st Class to do the umpiring

nikgaukroger wrote:

petedalby wrote:

I foresee random rulings at the IWC ...

Now don't be unkind Nik - there's still time for us to get Zoltan on the right track -

Or the IWF could fly us out 1st Class to do the umpiring

Sshhh, how do you think I am funding my trip

Nik and Pete, thanks for the page 133 reference. I thought I had seen that before but I could not find it again.

So, a unit of 8 pike in 2x4 block with only the front 2 bases in open terrain and the back ranks in difficult terrain would still be entitled to the + for 3 ranks of steady pike but would not get the + for the 4th rank and would be severly disordered for movement and all tests. Does that sound right?

petedalby wrote:

I disagree! ;->)

Steady is explicitly defined as one of 4 Cohesion Levels.

Disordered and severly disordered are not listed as Cohesion Levels.

I am sorry that you disagree and I suggest you read Page 133 - this clearly states that Disorder and Severe Disorder mean that a BG can not count as Steady.

Fair cop - its great having so many willing helpers prepared to do the 'ard yards when I can't be bovverred. ;->) Who mentioned the word encylomaniac?

Or the IWF could fly us out 1st Class to do the umpiring Cool

Do you SKYPE? I could afford that.

So, a unit of 8 pike in 2x4 block with only the front 2 bases in open terrain and the back ranks in difficult terrain would still be entitled to the + for 3 ranks of steady pike but would not get the + for the 4th rank and would be severly disordered for movement and all tests. Does that sound right?

Partly. It is quite an unusual scenario that you describe - but here's my take on it.

All of the fighting bases are in the open - so the BG gets 4 dice.

The front rank bases are not severely disordered, the 3rd rank is - but there are still 3 ranks - so the POA for 3 rank pikes applies.

It is the front base that needs to be in the open to get the 4th rank + - so it still gets this.

And yes, the BG is considered to be Severely Disordered for CTs & CMTs and slowed for movement.

Others inevitably may disagree.

Or the IWF could fly us out 1st Class to do the umpiring

I'd do it for economy!