Slitherine

Which sounds better to the brain trust:

List 1
1x FC
3x TC
5x6 Samurai with Retainers: MF/ARM/AVG/Undrilled/BW*/HW
3x4 Samurai Cavalry: CV/ARM/SUP/undrilled/BW/SW
3x6 Ashigaru: MF/PROT/AVG/Undrilled/offensive spear

797 points can downgrade FC and add 6 fortifications

List 2
4x TC
4x4 Samurai Cav: Same stats as above
4x6 Ashigaru: Sames stats as above
3x6 Samurai with Retainers same stats as above
1x8 Samurai with Retainers same stats as above

This is 796
I really want to keep all 4 commanders since with all the average troops I feel I need to bolster the average when fighting Superior troops. I am also limited to 16 true Samurai bases.

I will sit down and listed for my answer

I would go with List 1 and downgrade the FC.

The samurai cavalry are OK but being undrilled and having no LH to coordinate with are not likely to be world beaters. So I like having less of them.

The Ashigaru are a bit weak and there are better MF in the army. So it would be handy for them to have some fortifications to protect them.

The main strength to me are the armoured MF. Gives a decent line of reasonably good troops.

IMHO

Dump the mounted Samurai altogether.
Add in the Ashigaru Bow Unit
Get Foot Samurai and 'Weak' Ashigaru Spearmen.
The 'Weak' Ashigaru can be used as rear support for most of the rest of the army if you think they are too weak for the front line.
Me I like getting stuck in with them.
Maybe get some Peasants just to make up the numbers.

I have used the absolutly fabulous looking Two Dragons Bamboo palisade several times.
Yes it scares the enemy away but tends to make me defensive and I think this armies strength lies in the mobility of the foot.

I do like the foot Samurai and 6 of them are the same cost as 4 horses so it is a easy trade. I will probably use list 1 and downgrade the commander and get some Tate for field fortifications ( I got some real cool looking 28mm decals which will work great for my Maku screen and the Tate.

What if I change one of the Samurai foot with retainers and get a unit of bow. They could fire overhead in a third rank behind the palisade and make up some of my missile troops.

The armoured ashigaru bow unit does not need to hide and the integral pavise allows modelling opportunities.

To be honest this is not one of the best armies out there for open competition, you will always be biting your nails during cohesion tests.
BUT it is pretty and one of my favourites

Can I ask a really stupid question - which list is this army from?

nosher wrote:Can I ask a really stupid question - which list is this army from?

Late Heian to Muromachi Japanese.

nikgaukroger wrote:

nosher wrote:Can I ask a really stupid question - which list is this army from?

Late Heian to Muromachi Japanese.

Cheers - thought as much but needed clarification So what would be the Mongol list that would oppose this list in 1281?

Yuan Chinese.

If you plan to do a Mongol invasion (Ran a 28mm a close to a 2000+ point 28mm game at Little Wars). You have to fake it. The invasion force had a lot of Koreans and Chinese (read Trumballs book on the Mongol invasion). we did the 1281 and had a wall across the Japanese front for most of it.
The invaders had 3 waves of about 6 to 700 points a piece against I think I threw out 800 points of Samurai.
The first wave started on the beach and the Mongols could put the second and third wave together anyway they wanted of the troops allowed. We had 2 "Junks" to show the fleet which had heavy rocket artillery (was not there in the second invasion but it made the Japanese honest). Only mounted unit was a full size unit of Mongol Guard cavalry who had to make a complex move test to see if there horses made it to shore!

Rest of the Mongols fought dismounted as they did historically. used a 4x6 board lots of 28mm figure, lots of dead, lots of fun

Sounds like you had a blast! Cheers for the info - I think I feel another metal miniature order coming on!