Slitherine

Given how well the Tercio rules work in FoGR, would it be worth considering certain special formation rules for FoG AM?

Phalanx. Not necessarily all Pike BGs get this.

Make the good Pike's even better. protecting flanks etc?

I could see some rules regarding the depth of the formation. The sources point out that having a deeper formation than your rival provided some advantage due to the brute force of the pushing effects. It would be a nice option for generals if such a formation was conceived.

By the way, I think it would be better if there was a set of defined formations BG's can adopt instead of letting that liberty as right now.

Giving a + for larger formations and dept might be good indeed

hazelbark wrote:Given how well the Tercio rules work in FoGR, would it be worth considering certain special formation rules for FoG AM?

Well for the late c15th Swiss the FoG:R keil would help the representation no end

I do wonder if something is needed for the SE Asian elephant + infantry + cavalry "battle groups" that may be best done with a special formation.

Otherwise, not really.

Agree with Nik (again, urh!).

It would be nice to have a better representation of the Persian "mantlet wall". At present it's ignored, apart from it might be a factor in the armour class. The effect seems to have been that it needed to be properly set up, worked well until the enemy made a breach and then wasn't much good.

So perhaps a rule change that uses the Portable Obstacle set up/take down section. Have all the persian infantry as Protected but allow the mantlet wall to increase armour class by one step (i.e. from Protected to Armoured) as long as the troops are steady and in good order.

In fact that could be used for all the missile troops who fight behind erected barriers. You could even extend it to shieldwall fighters like Anglo Saxons who were fine against the enemy as long as immobile with locked shields but badly cut up if the wall broke.

grahambriggs wrote:It would be nice to have a better representation of the Persian "mantlet wall". At present it's ignored, apart from it might be a factor in the armour class. The effect seems to have been that it needed to be properly set up, worked well until the enemy made a breach and then wasn't much good.

So perhaps a rule change that uses the Portable Obstacle set up/take down section. Have all the persian infantry as Protected but allow the mantlet wall to increase armour class by one step (i.e. from Protected to Armoured) as long as the troops are steady and in good order.

In fact that could be used for all the missile troops who fight behind erected barriers. You could even extend it to shieldwall fighters like Anglo Saxons who were fine against the enemy as long as immobile with locked shields but badly cut up if the wall broke.

In effect you want something that is similar to Defensive Spear, but cancels all enemy weapon POA (not just swordsman)as long as they are steady.

The current model sort of does this:

With light spear and 2nd rank shooting you have a fair chance of disrupting the enemy in impact. If you succeeded then they are losing dice in melee while you are at full dice but usually a POA down (overall fairly even, = mantlet wall secure). If you don't disrupt them then the wall is breached (equal dice but a POA down).

This makes the wall fairly feeble because the opponent could still pass his CT if he loses the impact.

You could maybe allow a 4 deep pike block to be self supporting to give it a little more endurance.

hazelbark wrote:You could maybe allow a 4 deep pike block to be self supporting to give it a little more endurance.

ok i finish painting my Swiss !

Jilu, and look at them in FoG:R - they are even better...

lawrenceg wrote:

grahambriggs wrote:It would be nice to have a better representation of the Persian "mantlet wall". At present it's ignored, apart from it might be a factor in the armour class. The effect seems to have been that it needed to be properly set up, worked well until the enemy made a breach and then wasn't much good.

So perhaps a rule change that uses the Portable Obstacle set up/take down section. Have all the persian infantry as Protected but allow the mantlet wall to increase armour class by one step (i.e. from Protected to Armoured) as long as the troops are steady and in good order.

In fact that could be used for all the missile troops who fight behind erected barriers. You could even extend it to shieldwall fighters like Anglo Saxons who were fine against the enemy as long as immobile with locked shields but badly cut up if the wall broke.

In effect you want something that is similar to Defensive Spear, but cancels all enemy weapon POA (not just swordsman)as long as they are steady.

The current model sort of does this:

With light spear and 2nd rank shooting you have a fair chance of disrupting the enemy in impact. If you succeeded then they are losing dice in melee while you are at full dice but usually a POA down (overall fairly even, = mantlet wall secure). If you don't disrupt them then the wall is breached (equal dice but a POA down).

This makes the wall fairly feeble because the opponent could still pass his CT if he loses the impact.

I think it's all round poorly modelled to be honest. The Persian foot are far too mobile at present - having to spend a move setting up the barrier would fix that.

The way that the impact melee phase works at the moment is unhistoric. Currently, the Persians are good at impact but go down quickly if they don't disrupt decent enemy at impact. But the historical accounts seem to suggest that the wall didn't help to disrupt the enemy at impact particularly. But it did seem to give the Persinas a resilience to hold out for quite a while - until the wall was breached at least.

I think if I were doing a Plataea refight I might have the Persians as:

- Protected Bow only HF
- mantlet wall takes a move to set up
- troops defending mantlet wall count as armoured while steady
- manlet wall means Persians losing the impact don't need cohesion test
- mantlet wall adds +1 to cohesion test of steady Persians

This should mean that the hoplites have a stiff fight to get through the wall, but the hoplites are not in too much danger of losing. The Persians may hold out for a while but once they go disrupted should fall apart quickly.

I think it is all too complicated . Keep it simple please ...