Slitherine

Just in time for a Christmas treat!

Figures are now ready to order, to dispatch w/c 22nd Novemeber

http://www.lurkio.co.uk/15mm-figures-c-73.html

We'll be at Warfare, Reading with a limited number of army box sets. The first person to buy an anrmy box with receive a bottle of Champagne!

thanks

Simon

Excellent I will be ordering some soon.

A couple of packs seem to be missing: (levy) spearmen and a C-in-C. These are listed in your army pack.

Should be there now


http://www.lurkio.co.uk/spbg01-sassanid ... p-190.html

http://www.lurkio.co.uk/spbg06-levy-spe ... p-208.html

Those are very nice...I like.

Got any other ranges planned in similar style?

Many thanks to Mr & Mrs Lurkio for sorting out a few horse swaps from the packs in the army box - and the bottle of fizz

I fear my painting will not do the figures proud though

Got any other ranges planned in similar style?

The next range is a wider 5-7C romano/byzantine affair.. Just starting on these

Aha! I've been looking around for some Byzants for a while without really finding anything quite ro my satisfaction...I shall await yours with interest.

nikgaukroger wrote:Many thanks to Mr & Mrs Lurkio for sorting out a few horse swaps from the packs in the army box - and the bottle of fizz

I fear my painting will not do the figures proud though

I was wondering who got the bottle

Trust you eh

hammy wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote:Many thanks to Mr & Mrs Lurkio for sorting out a few horse swaps from the packs in the army box - and the bottle of fizz

I fear my painting will not do the figures proud though

I was wondering who got the bottle

Trust you eh

Yes I did wonder about that too?

list_lurker wrote:

Got any other ranges planned in similar style?

The next range is a wider 5-7C romano/byzantine affair.. Just starting on these

In relation to the Byzantines can I recommend a quick look at this article - http://www.levantia.com.au/military/Fit ... e_Task.pdf - which helps make sense of some of the sizes of Byzantine equipment which often appear to be very big.

Out of interest how late could you be persuaded to go with the Byzantines? I've always been tempted, for some reason, to do a Thematic army

nikgaukroger wrote:Out of interest how late could you be persuaded to go with the Byzantines? I've always been tempted, for some reason, to do a Thematic army

I took a Thematic army to Rampage a couple of years ago with disasterous consequences. One problem you have to deal with is that a lot of your men have lances as well as a bow - but don't know how to use them. So instead of standing around shooting like sensible fellows they were always throwing themselves foward against impossible odds! (Or maybe that was just my generalship ...)

Maniakes wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote:Out of interest how late could you be persuaded to go with the Byzantines? I've always been tempted, for some reason, to do a Thematic army

I took a Thematic army to Rampage a couple of years ago with disasterous consequences. One problem you have to deal with is that a lot of your men have lances as well as a bow - but don't know how to use them. So instead of standing around shooting like sensible fellows they were always throwing themselves foward against impossible odds! (Or maybe that was just my generalship ...)

I've never wanted to do one because it looked effective

nikgaukroger wrote:In relation to the Byzantines can I recommend a quick look at this article - http://www.levantia.com.au/military/Fit ... e_Task.pdf - which helps make sense of some of the sizes of Byzantine equipment which often appear to be very big.

That's a very useful article. Don't you think that suggests the menavlatoi are misclassified in FOG? Perhaps something like Offensive Spear rather than Heavy Weapon?

Maniakes wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote:In relation to the Byzantines can I recommend a quick look at this article - http://www.levantia.com.au/military/Fit ... e_Task.pdf - which helps make sense of some of the sizes of Byzantine equipment which often appear to be very big.

That's a very useful article. Don't you think that suggests the menavlatoi are misclassified in FOG? Perhaps something like Offensive Spear rather than Heavy Weapon?

Ah, the good old menavlion - still somewhat of a tricky one. However, having also recently read Dennis' 2010 translation of Leo VI's Taktika, I think I can say that Heavy Weapon is not right (it was always a bit suspect) - Spear of some sort is quite likely, especially as it is described as a weapon previously used by some "ancient" cavalry

nikgaukroger wrote: having also recently read Dennis' 2010 translation of Leo VI's Taktika

Ooh, ooh ...it's out! Must get to bookshop....

... Oh, in hardback and Amazon want an am and a leg. Might have to wait for the paperback

Maniakes wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote: having also recently read Dennis' 2010 translation of Leo VI's Taktika

Ooh, ooh ...it's out! Must get to bookshop....

... Oh, in hardback and Amazon want an am and a leg. Might have to wait for the paperback

I'm not sure Dunbarton Oaks ever publish paperbacks

I guess you could borrow it from somebody if they were kind ...

Go to a library and ask to borrow it. Give them the ISBN or author and publisher and in UK they have to try and get it, and normally do.

I honestly don't think you can do much about the menavlion under FoG rules, without significant changes.

I agree HW doesn't feel right.

But Offensive Spear doesn't seem right either, considering the "real life" perspective of what I understand their purpose to have been. And in purely game terms, having a small unit of shock troops mixed in with the rest of the non-shock infantry would require a bit of care and attention without adding much benefit.

I would have said they should be considered as just being mixed in with the rest of the defensive spear infantry, so no need for them to be represented as a distinct BG with distinct abilities, in much the same way that hastati/principes are not distinguished, and Aurelian's clubmen/legionaries are not distinguished. Or perhaps allow them to be regarded as stiffeners for a proportion of the defensive spear BGs, allowing their quality to be upgraded.

Seems like allowing them to be deployed as small BGs of 4 protected MF, Light Spear, Sword would make them fairly effective as a flying squads to fill in holes, provide rear support or take advantage of flanks. There should probably also be an option to include them with in skutatoi BGs as stiffening but I'm not sure what would be good way to represent that. Maybe allow upgrading the Defensive spearmen to Offensive spearmen?

Chris

I guess it depends on what you think the historical role/purpose of the menavlatoi was. I thought it was specifically intended as a counter to enemy shock cavalry charging you, so an appropriate FoG classification should reflect that.

Perhaps I should take the time to read that article and see if it changes my mind

But note that "stiffening" poorer quality troops implies to me they become more resilient, not more aggressive as a whole. Offensive Spear is not an upgrade over Defensive Spear unless you want to attack with them. And if you choose to form a line consisting of a mix of DS and OS you should expect a good chance of running into trouble at some point.

And not sure about their manoeuvre capbility either. Personally if I was carrying a menavlionmyself I would be knackered after dragging it 20 paces forward, let alone ferociously charging across the fields whilst banging shield and spear together above my head to intimidate the enemy!