Slitherine

I absolutely love this game and will buy any expansion that is released in the future but...

...sometimes i think that game is too focused on tanks and heavy gear and infantry have a much secondary role. Except the odd ambush i find infantry pretty expendable and useless. Tanks are so dominant and powerful against infantry that infantry doesn´t get a chance. You always have tons on tanks, germans have even more and if you have many casualties there´s always fresh reinforcements (with even more tanks).


I know this is not a realistic simulation and the unit selections doesn´t match any real TOE´s but i would like to see more scenarios where armour have a secondary or support role and infantry is the protagonist. Most of ww2 battles where not between tanks but infantry with little or no armour support at all.

Is fun playing with dozens of vehicles but i think infantry battles would be more challenging and less...repetitive.

Have you tried the Street Fighting MP Scenario? You might change your preception on how infantry is handled in the game after you play it. Set up a game if you wish I will be more than willing to accept your challenge.

On my side, i think that how the combined arms tactics (infantry/armor/artillery and aircraft to a less degree) are handled in this game is what makes it shine so much. If you use your infantry in the proper way (from cover to cover, supressing fire for support, etc) I think there is many jobs done by infantry units in the game that could not be handled by any other unit.

Just try to get with any kind of armor in a city area with a few infantry hidding in the buildings....nasty stuff.

Word.
I love infantry fighting and would also like to see more of it.
I don't know if you play MP but the scenario "Street Fighting" is for you. It was unbalanced at release but has been changed. I haven't played the latest version but hopefully it is balanced now and should be a blast.
That been said there are ways to use infantry to good effect in most MP scenarios but I would like a few more where they have the dominant role and tanks and guns are for support.

Just a little note.

I would also love to see more infantry oriented scenarios (some VERY good single player ones already in the forums, by the way. Try Pegasus Bridge by Amaris for instance. Great stuff. viewtopic.php?t=18504). I agree on that with you guys (not so many in the basic game)

On the other hand, I don´t agree with the OP statement that infantry is "pretty expendable and useless" in the game, as I pointed out in my last reply.

Cheers

Try my Pacific Theatre campaigns. Very little armour in most of them.

A note from me too
I only play MP so that is what I'm referring to.
And I agree with Acererak to not agree with infantry being "pretty expendable and useless"

Thanks for your responses. I haven´t tried MP yet, first time i tried there were no challenges available and i was a bit confused about how it works. I think latest patches makes it easier so i would definitely give it a try now i´ve already finished every single player campaign.

PD: Infantry is not useless but very vulnerable to tanks. Maybe is the fact that AI launches hordes of infantry units in open terrain so they get slaughtered...i guess a human player will be more clever.

Will launch a challenge tonight!

I do want to echo some of Rybens original comments though - that is too much armour. I don't think of Infantry as useless but there is a mass of armour given the scale. Just a few examples (and scenarios I am building),.
Italy - Capt Paul Trickett at Casa Berardi 1 company of Royal 22nd (Van Doos) so approx 80 to 90 infantry - 4 Shermans supporting (but he also had 2 batteries of 25pdrs supporting). Throughout the day he was reenforced by another company of Infantry (he passed through their lines earlier) and another 4 Shermans ( first 4 were knocked out or immobilized) so 8 tanks to 160 Infantry. Germans amounted to 2 companies of Infantry and 3 MkIIIs and 1 MkIVE (short barrel), with 3 more long barrel Mk IV's showing up near the end - still 7 tanks to about 140 infantry.
Italy again - recce Sqn of the Lord Strathconas (4 Stuart Jalopes - 16 crew) and a company of the Royal Westminster Regiment, Germans were roughly 90 Infantry supported by 3 Mkiv's and 1 Panther.
Normandy - I have a couple which are similar with the Calgary Highlanders, Regina Rifles and Winnipeg Rifles all involved with roughly 2 companies (4 actually but I am only fighting part of the action), supported by 4 to 6 tanks - combination Fireflys, Achilles and Shermans - I am breaking down each fight into smaller bits but fighting the entire engagement as a campaign. Germans from the Hitler Jugen 12th SS amount to an armoured infantry company with either 4 MkIVs or 4 Panthers supporting.

All these engagements amount to a very similar mix and it is not how I chose them it is how they historically fell out. There is no doubt that some engagements did have more armour than what I have explained above, but they seem to be less frequent than what we see in the MP scenarios.

They are fun to play, but I have doubts about the ratio of infantry to tank.

On a different note, shouldn't we also have a fire base team with the BAR, Bren, MG42 or what have you as part of the infantry section? Just a thought (oh and were are the US 60mm and Brit 2" mortars?)

To portray a typical infantry company with some tank platoons in a scenario we would need:

- 9 infantry units (3 units per platoon, 3 platoons per company)
- MG support unit (one of the great ommisions in the game, you only see tripod MG in defence missions and not always. They were integral part of a company)
- Anti-tank team (one bazooka team, for example)
- Light mortar team (60 mm or 2)
- Company commander (maybe a jeep unit or something)

For a mechanised infantry company we would also need 9 transports plus 2 or 3 extra for support units.

Umh...loads of troops. Much more close to reality (i´m thinking of Steel Panthers) but maybe too much for the typical BA scenario...

For my Pacific mod, the Japanese have knee mortars (one man mobile), light mortars (two man mobile), mortars (two man immobile), HMG (immobile), LMG (mobile), plus Command squads and XOs with rally ability. US and USMC similar.

Edit I forgot ATRs and bazookas

Yes I certainly liked how you handed those J2D. I think the reason for the light mortar is to have a mobile fire base to supress mgs, and of course provide smoke - which we don't have yet

Ryben, depends on who we are talking about when you say tripod MG's were integral to the company. Brits/commonwealth had an MG battalion and parcelled out their MG's and heavy mortars (4.2") based on assigned tasks. So you might not have any if you are just doing patrolling. Germans had MG's at battalion leve but again were parcelled out dependant on their assigned task. If you were in an area not considered a big threat you might not have any heavy MG support but most of the time the interlocking fields of fire meant even at company you would be supported by a couple at the very least. As for the AT unit, this amounts to the same thing as the hvy MG (tripod based), Brits had the PIAT as the platoon AT team, US had more bazooka teams in a Battalion than the Brits had PIAT teams, but for a company I think it was almost equal (unless you are talking an armored infantry company - US that is). So I would say 1 AT team per platoon - plus you can have attached 2 to 4 6pdrs/57mms at the company as well.

Ryben wrote: -- MG support unit (one of the great ommisions in the game, you only see tripod MG in defence missions and not always. They were integral part of a company)

There are mobile 2 men MG teams (30 cal./Bren/MG34) portrayed in the game

I think what he is saying is the available battles are over armoured, under booted.

Give it time and more styles of battles with more types of units will be around.

junk2drive wrote:I think what he is saying is the available battles are over armoured, under booted.

That´s it...i´m now playing the "Street Fighting" scenario and it´s more interesting than regular single player ones. Lots of infantry with limited armoured support...that makes every tank and vehicle a valuable asset. In fact i only have one "tank" (a StugIII) and i really suffer every turn an enemy shots at him. Love this scenario!

In regular scenarios i tend to be less careful with vehicles because i have plenty of them.

Would love to see infantry guns in the future...

I make those too. I used the US 57 ATG model to make a 105 Howitzer. Can't move, can be transported.

No reason why someone couldn't take the German 37mm gun and make various field guns.

junk2drive wrote:I make those too. I used the US 57 ATG model to make a 105 Howitzer. Can't move, can be transported.

Look at this nice 3d model (although it cost 25$ but is a simple model and could be easily done in 3d)
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d- ... non/397154

There is a lot of nice free items on turbosquid. 2D as well. I only wish I had the skills to make use of these 3D models.

We are still waiting for an exporter for other than Max.