Slitherine

Excellent game. Two things I wouldn't mind seeing regarding hedgerow terrain:

1) Infantry that can normally move on it's own should be able to move through a hedgerow grid-side. Perhaps using all of it's AP to do so. So, the unit would have to start it's turn adjacent to the hedgerow, move through, and then could not move again until the next turn.

2) Have a model of the Sherman and the M5 with the Cullen Cutter mounted on it. They could "bulldoze" the hedgerow similar to what happens with removing wrecks. Again it would use all AP for that turn to penetrate the hedgerow.

I don't know if these things can be modded - I haven't looked at the modding aspect at all. I'm not all that good at that sort of thing...

Hub wrote:2) Have a model of the Sherman and the M5 with the Cullen Cutter mounted on it. They could "bulldoze" the hedgerow similar to what happens with removing wrecks. Again it would use all AP for that turn to penetrate the hedgerow.

I don't know if these things can be modded - I haven't looked at the modding aspect at all. I'm not all that good at that sort of thing...

Hi!

You mean, "Sherman Rhino"!

viewtopic.php?t=18061

I think, it will be modded!

THe maps have been built with hedges as impassable barriers and allowing you to pass through them could have all sorts of unintended effects so i don't think it's something we'll be adding for now. These hedges are bocage which was pretty much impenetrable, not your average hedge.

Impassible to vehicles would be OK, but I still think leg units should be able to make it through, albeit with a lot of difficulty (all their AP points).

Have you tried getting through bocage - it really is more than just a hedge

Heh, the Allies had these same complaints when they actually invaded. I think they're fine as they are.

I think that change would mean a major twist to gameplay balance as how the current maps are designed. Don´t see it as an easy change, and leaving it the way it is makes perfect sense to me as well (Bocage was a major obstacle even for infantry).

Also, i noticed that Infantry units can shoot through Bocage when standing right next to it, and armor cant, which gives a little advantage to infantry that again, feels realistic and makes sense.

pomakli wrote:You mean, "Sherman Rhino"!

viewtopic.php?t=18061

I think, it will be modded!

I'm intrigued as I get 'Sorry, but only users granted special access can read topics in this forum' when try to follow link

I'll guess it links to the beta forum.

Cheers

Pip

Have I been through bocage hedgerows? Yes I have. Difficult, yes - very. Impossible, no.

I'll explore other options...

There isn't currently any way to remove objects via the scripting, so it's not possible to do really. And the passability info is per object-type, so we can't just make them passable. I'll add the things we'd need to do to the todo list.

Cheers

Pip

Assuming each the 1 tile/square long model of bocage, just destroy that instance of that model when it's breached?

Hedgrows were breachable, not just Hedges:

From Wikipedia....

US M4 Sherman with 'Rhino' hedge-breaching modifications, Normandy 1944A Rhino tank (or "Rhinoceros")[1][2][3] was the US nickname for Allied tanks fitted with hedgerow-breaching "tusks" in Normandy during the liberation of France in World War II. The British referred to these as Prong.

By cutting apart the three-beam, tetrahedral steel anti-tank obstacles, allegedly nicknamed chevaux de frise in French, that had been placed by the Germans on the beach before the landing, the Americans recycled the obstacles' steel beams into many-pronged, sharp, tusk-like assemblies to attach to the front of their M4 Sherman medium and M5 Stuart light tanks. This method of cutting through hedgerows was extremely effective in the bocage terrain of the area, where hedges were a serious obstacle for tanks. The idea came from Curtis G. Culin, sergeant of New Jersey 102nd Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron,[4] and also resulted in the "tusk" assembly being generically nicknamed the "Culin Hedgerow Cutter" in the wartime Allied media.

If you guys don't want to change, its understandable though if its a non-trival mod to the code.


Gib

This is very different from what I've seen in research. Bocage was often raised so the hedgerow itself only a small part of the barrier and still impassable once the hedge was removed. Anyway, it would break the scenario designs so we're not planning to do it and there is currently no way to remove objects so we couldn't if we wanted!

The limiting factor is not having a destructible environment. That would be cool in may instances ... buildings, trees, oh yes and bocage.

Pip / Iain - Any plans to have this on your 'todo' list? And, more importantly if it's there, short, medium or long-term? I assume there's no workarounds from the scripting for fire effect to update objects in .BAM file.

Cheers

What I've done is to just lay down a strip of Forest tiles. This prevents vehicles from moving through but will allow leg units to hide within or pass through. Then on random tiles I've placed a block tree. This will give intermittent sight lines through the strip. I then tarted up the strip with various things to make it look more like bocage then just a strip of trees. I leave the odd small break in the line so vehicles can pass through in a few places.

I've created a map using the method above and have been experimenting with a handful of units to see how it feels. Personally, I think it recreates the feel of what it must have been like fighting in the bocage better than just putting down a "rat's maze" of hedgerow sides. The only problem with it is that leg units can enter and leave it as easily as a forest square, which is too easy - but that can't be helped.

I also understand that existing maps won't be changed, and that's fine.

Would anyone like to try messing around with this map I made, just to see if it does make a difference, or should I just drop it? This is not an indictment against anything or anyone, just a differing POV.

Recommended option for engineer units: Breach

insidius wrote:Heh, the Allies had these same complaints when they actually invaded. I think they're fine as they are.

Allied soldier: lol god damn these hedgerows, nazis are soo OP.