Slitherine

When a player expands a BG in combat (e.g. knights moving out from a rear rank), does the expanded element have to be able to contribute to the melee after expansion for it to be legal? Reading the rules on p72 and p73, it doesn't say that the expanded element must be able to contribute, however, the title of the section and the first paragrpah on p72 imply that it should be.

IF the base you want to expand with is currently adding combat dice they can't expand.
If they are not adding combat dice t a melee they can expand. You can only expand if it will bring you into front base contact with another enemy base that is either part of the engaged enemy unit or is an enemy overlap against you, or it will result in your getting an overlap on the enemy. If you are not adding dice to an existing melee you can't expand. Hope that answers it for you.

Dead,
Can you point to a page and parraph for this qualifying statement. "IE "Only is adding dice tot he Melle"
Thank You
Gino
SMAC

sheesh you think my addled brain can't recall everything, I will lumber off to the mighty rulebook and check it out for you.

OK so I might have been wrong on the whole need to add dice to a combat thing
page 73 covers expansions and contracting while in combat.

1. page 46: Expansions here cover battlegroups not in close combat...i.e., if you are in contact with enemy, you may not make an expansion move

2. page 72: covers expansion when in contact with enemy but there are specific condition...now, it does not seem to overtly state that when you are the active player, your expansion must contribute to melee...perhaps a mod or such could clarify if necessary?...as the defender, you seem so restricted.

So as I first suspected you can expand while in combat whether you are actually adding dice to the melle or not as long as you are the active player. Non-active players are limited to matching an existing overlap.

There are circumstances where this is of stategic value.
1) To remove a rear rank base that may have been in flank charge range.
2) To set up an impact with another BG on a rout follow through
and The one often missed
3) To catch an enemy BG in your ZOI to limit movement options.

Gino
SMAC

you can't expand with a base that is adding dice or POA's to a combat.
Player whose turn it is can expand first, and you can only expand out to one side of the melee during a turn

you could expand out to keep an enemy from moving into an overlap as they would have to charge your overlapping unit or in the case of lights keep them out of the overlap if they would have to charge non-lights.
You can contract bases that are not adding dice or POA's to fill in a rear rank, fill that hole that just died or a third line to keep you from that flank charge you mentioned. Pulling back and out of an enemies charge range on your flank

kal5056 wrote:...There are circumstances where this is of stategic value.
1) To remove a rear rank base that may have been in flank charge range.
2) To set up an impact with another BG on a rout follow through
and The one often missed
3) To catch an enemy BG in your ZOI to limit movement options.

4) to increase the size of your BG if you get caught fighting in a deep formation.

DavidT wrote:When a player expands a BG in combat (e.g. knights moving out from a rear rank), does the expanded element have to be able to contribute to the melee after expansion for it to be legal? Reading the rules on p72 and p73, it doesn't say that the expanded element must be able to contribute, however, the title of the section and the first paragrpah on p72 imply that it should be.

And indeed the title and the first line tell you that moved bases must contribute - the "until they are all fighting" bit is quite important

nikgaukroger wrote:

DavidT wrote:When a player expands a BG in combat (e.g. knights moving out from a rear rank), does the expanded element have to be able to contribute to the melee after expansion for it to be legal? Reading the rules on p72 and p73, it doesn't say that the expanded element must be able to contribute, however, the title of the section and the first paragrpah on p72 imply that it should be.

And indeed the title and the first line tell you that moved bases must contribute - the "until they are all fighting" bit is quite important

Thanks for helping to clarify.

So as I first suspected you can expand while in combat whether you are actually adding dice to the melle or not as long as you are the active player.

Regretably I would ask for the umpire to rule against such an expansion.

I agree that it doesn't say you can't - but if you read the first paragraph on page 72 I believe it makes it clear that the objective is to get more bases fighting - not to enable you to do the other things you list. To expand and not achieve that objective is - and no offence intended - verging on cheese.

But that's just my view and I'm sure that there will be many who disagree with me - that's why I'd accept the umpire's ruling.

I agree that "lack of a prohibition" is hardly a "definative approval"

I will add to the FAQ Request

Nice to see when these discussions can be held civilly and with calm heads.

Thank You
Gino

I will add to the FAQ Request

An excellent suggestion.

I was always under the impression that expansions had to add to an existing melee, guess it was just the way my mind works, can't really see a reason to extend the line if its not to get more bases into combat.

And petedalby if you look above you will see you are correct to question expanding even if you are adding to a combat, I pointed out the page that says you can't expand if you are adding POA's or dice to a combat.