Slitherine

Proposed Variable points system for RAMPAGE 2011

ARMY DESIGN
1. Choose and army and date
2. Design a legal army of up to 600 pts – these troop will always play
3. Design a legal addition to take it up to 900pts – these additional troops may play.
4. Create an overall order of battle for the entire 900pts
5. Create a separate sheet with just the additional troops on that you can share with your opponent.

AT START OF GAME
1. At the beginning of each game swap your additional troop list.
2. Now roll a die for each general and BG in your additional troop list.
3. 4/5/6 the BG or general plays, 1/2/3 it does not.
4. Add up and declare army size – you both now have an army between 600pts and 900pts.
5. Adjust PBI for actual army.
6. Play on as normal.
7. Terrain of course you can now try to adjust bearing in mind your match up (i.e. you know you are playing 850pts and you have 680).

RESULT
1. Fewer equal games than currently.
2. All above board, and luck driven for each game (no unlucky draws).
3. Added intrigue of terrain in knowledge of the mismatch in points.
4. 1/3rd list checking for me and concept can be scaled to create wider or narrowing differences (e.g. do 1000pts but they play on 5 or 6).


SCORING SYSTEM

Normal 20-0 base score with bonus points as follows:

• Point difference Army Rout Bonus Bonus for any win
  200 surplus 0 0
  100 surplus 1 0
  50 surplus 3 0
  Within 50 points = equal 5 0
  50 deficit 7 1
  100 deficit 8 2
  150 deficit 9 3
  200 deficit 10 5

EXAMPLE

Simon’s NKEs from this weekend adapted to new system shown below. Legal 591pt ARMY has 3 TCs and 10 Battlegroups (3 Sup Chariots, 1 Sup LF, 3 Ave Spearmen MF and 3 Ave Archers MF). All minima are covered for the army as it includes all compulsory troop types. Optional set has a general and 4BGs. This total just under 900pts. I have an order of battle for the entirety.

I give the sub-list to my opponent with the TC and 4 additonal BGs (3 chariots and 8 Sherden MF Impact Foot Sw). I roll a dice for each getting 1,2,5,2,4. In this game my general and two chariot BGs miss out. I have a chariot and my Sherden MF playing in this game. My total army is 12 BGs and I have 719pts. My PBI is 1.

With 5 "additions" I have a 1 in 32 chance of playing with 900pts and of playing with 600 points. If you take 2 additions (2 BGs each of 6 armoured knights) you get 1 in 4 chance of being 600 or 900 - one for the brave amongst you.

Off we go. I use my overall order of battle with the missing BGs and general deleted.

CAN SOMEONE DO ME A FAVOUR AND INSERT THE LIST AS AN IMAGE IF I E-MAIL IT TO THEM AND TABULATE THE SCORING TABLE FOR ME ... TECHNICALLY INEPT I'M AFRAID... TX

Si

Hi Simon

Just a quick question.

Would your initial 600 points have to cover any minima required from the army list or is it okay if the 900 points covers all the minima required?

Rob

Would your variable battle groups go anywhere in the order of march? You would presumably then deploy a quarter of your actual army (after the dice rolling) in each batch - with ambushes etc done as usual. Or would they all have to go at the end of the order of march?

Your 600 pts must include the minima - so if perchance you didn't get any "extra" your army is still legal.

The additional 300 could go anywhere in your orderof march and you simply delete those not attending.

Si

PS and you could put an entire ally in the 300 but there would be a risk of it turning up without its general - one for the brave.

There is a variance issue in there possibly. Let's imagine two extremes:

List A- The 300 points are all in 3 BGs of Super Knights.

List B- The 300 are 8 BGs of 4 element MF

List A is going to see some huge swings (1 time in 8 it gets all three, 1 time in 8 it gets none) while B is going to be much more "average."

This may be a feature or it may be a problem, I suspect people won't fee comfortable with wild swings.

One possibility is to say the 300 AP is split into 3 groups of roughly 100 AP each (definitions could be made for what roughly means) and then dice for each group. That would put most armies on a fairly even footing with each army having roughly equal chances of feast or famine.

Might also consider if you can put a CiC out there as an "extra" group. Can I take an IC as a bonus unit and if he doesn't arrive assume one of my TCs is the CiC?

Yup I was considering it a feature as you can choose your volatility to some degree.

More dramatic still Ethan, take and army with 2x6s of Heavy Knights for the 300 points. 25% chance of 600, 50% of 750 and 25% of 900 - and what a 900 it would be!

Only for the brave.

Si

Do you need additional bonus entries for 250 point or 300 point differences?

Chris

That seems like it would be a very interesting tournament design. Players could take their "extra" points in different ways, depending on their appetite for risk. Always lots of uncertainty as to what exactly you will end up playing with.

I wonder which armies would end up advantaged, and which would be poo under this system?

Marc

That seems like it would be a very interesting tournament design. Players could take their "extra" points in different ways, depending on their appetite for risk. Always lots of uncertainty as to what exactly you will end up playing with.

I wonder which armies would end up advantaged, and which would be poo under this system?

So do I? The system the last 2 years has led to some interesting army desing indeed. A max size Byzantine flank march of poor armoured cavalry being the most fun!

If anyone gets an army rout win with 250 down I think they should get to keep the opponents figures!! Yes I probably do need to add a 15 points bonus for over 250.

All thoughts very helpful as I finalise plans for next year. Come on over and play - easy London location.

Si

shall wrote:All thoughts very helpful as I finalise plans for next year. Come on over and play - easy London location.

Si

Now all you need to do is run the event in July, rather than June. I have much more travel time available in July. Help a brother out?

Marc

Would love to but I think Ilford dates are pretty fixed. I am sure we are worth a trip!

Very end of June so almost July.....

Si

I really like this concept. I'm going to talk to the locals in Chicago and see whether they would be interested in a format like this and consider doing it for Little Wars next year. I wonder if there are enough folks in N. America who would travel to Chicago for a tournament set up like this?

everyLooks a fun set up. Re allies you might want a rule that says either all of the ally turns up or none does. Otherwise I can't see anyone taking allies - can't afford it in the main army, can't risk it in the extra 300 points.

Of course a heroic version of this would be to allow people a CIC and then make them roll for every BG in the army!

Indeed Graham. If people like the concept I will play around a bit to get the right mix of risk. Doing 500pts with 500 playing on 5s and 6s would give a wider spread.

Good idea on the ally but would make it very lumpy - but so what.

Si

shall wrote: Doing 5000pots with 500 playing on 5s and 6s would give a wider spread.


Si

I'd like to see 5000 point armies in 25mm.

I'd just like to see 5 000 pots on the table. Would pans be OK as well?

dave_r wrote:I'd just like to see 5 000 pots on the table. Would pans be OK as well?

Who needs a pan when you've got pot?

That reminds me not to post too hastily on here .....

We did do 5000pts a side at the challenge last year. 8 players a side. Battle of Chalons sur Marne. A near run thing. Attila won.

Si

shall wrote:That reminds me not to post too hastily on here .....

We did do 5000pts a side at the challenge last year. 8 players a side. Battle of Chalons sur Marne. A near run thing. Attila won.

Si

You promised us a battle report as well Simon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Another option is for those BGs and generals left out of the initial deployment through bad luck to have a second chance and come on to the rear edge of the table using the flank march rules. That would encourage players to leave the skirmisher BGs out of the 600 point army core as they would then have a better chance of coming in AND affecting the course of the battle. Might even allow for faster clashes with the heavy stuff if there are fewer skirmishers around to delay their advance.

Interesting format anyway. Might even consider consider coming out of retirement if I can persuade someone to organise a competition along these lines in Spain.

Julian