Slitherine

Which is the correct formation for Hasti and Prin.?


HHHH HHHH
HHHH HHHH
PPPP PPPP
PPPP PPPP

or
HHHH HHHH
PPPP PPPP
HHHH HHHH
PPPP PPPP

I believe it was one line of each. Your first example was probably correct. In game terms they are the same so could be in the same BG, I assume you are asking regarding figures

yes I was the rules are a little muddy on some of these little points like when removing bases from death rolls which of these do you remove the Hastati have deffrent armor so do i remove from the front rank or the rear???

Did you ever take a look at the army list? Hastati and Principes are the same in FoG (as deadtorius said before), so most of your questions dissolve. There is no "correct" formation and unimportant which base you remove first, as they all have the same armour grading.

giff wrote:yes I was the rules are a little muddy on some of these little points like when removing bases from death rolls which of these do you remove the Hastati have deffrent armor so do i remove from the front rank or the rear???

And when a BG does have different troops (normally a mixed BG including archers) the rules on base removal specify how bases are removed. Maybe you could quote the so called "muddy" rules you refer to and they could be explained to you. Or is it just that you haven't actually read the rules fully ?

giff wrote:Which is the correct formation for Hasti and Prin.?

As far as the rules are concerned they are exactly the same. All bases in the Battle groups made up from them must have the same armour and quality rating. You could have different battle groups with different armour ratings if you wished to model it that way. But that is probably below the scale of FoG.

In effect the BG is made up of the checkerboard formation and its tactics within this are subsumed in the rules. In that it is very hard against its common enemies. Modelling would probably be best with a mix of hastati, princeps within the same BG.

See this thread on organisation as per the army lists

viewtopic.php?t=9032

Polkovnik wrote:

giff wrote:yes I was the rules are a little muddy on some of these little points like when removing bases from death rolls which of these do you remove the Hastati have deffrent armor so do i remove from the front rank or the rear???

And when a BG does have different troops (normally a mixed BG including archers) the rules on base removal specify how bases are removed. Maybe you could quote the so called "muddy" rules you refer to and they could be explained to you. Or is it just that you haven't actually read the rules fully ?

What is muddy for some is the army list. Ive come across a couple of players not getting the intent of the represenation of mixed battlegroups in the army list.

As far as casualty removal goes, front base that is in contact with an enemy is the one that is removed, then if there is a base behind that one moves up into the gap. Which front base gets removed is the owning players choice I believe.

Polkovnik wrote:

giff wrote:yes I was the rules are a little muddy on some of these little points like when removing bases from death rolls which of these do you remove the Hastati have deffrent armor so do i remove from the front rank or the rear???

And when a BG does have different troops (normally a mixed BG including archers) the rules on base removal specify how bases are removed. Maybe you could quote the so called "muddy" rules you refer to and they could be explained to you. Or is it just that you haven't actually read the rules fully ?

You know we have never met but i can tell you are stunted little man with few friends. I am sorry my inquire to some rules so bothers you, maybe you should find another hobby, something a little less social. Try model trains. Better yet don't respond to my posts, your input is not that important and I can do with out it. I would rather play wrong forever than take advice from the likes of you. Please feel free to check my grammar and spelling if it helps you fill your empty life.

giff wrote:

Polkovnik wrote:

giff wrote:yes I was the rules are a little muddy on some of these little points like when removing bases from death rolls which of these do you remove the Hastati have deffrent armor so do i remove from the front rank or the rear???

And when a BG does have different troops (normally a mixed BG including archers) the rules on base removal specify how bases are removed. Maybe you could quote the so called "muddy" rules you refer to and they could be explained to you. Or is it just that you haven't actually read the rules fully ?

You know we have never met but i can tell you are stunted little man with few friends. I am sorry my inquire to some rules so bothers you, maybe you should find another hobby, something a little less social. Try model trains. Better yet don't respond to my posts, your input is not that important and I can do with out it. I would rather play wrong forever than take advice from the likes of you. Please feel free to check my grammar and spelling if it helps you fill your empty life.

ROTFL. Children. Behave.

But then I've never read all the rules. They are pretty dull.

LOL? What was that?

But then I've never read all the rules. They are pretty dull.

I've never read the rules at all. I thought that was what Hammy was for.

The rule for base removal has been questioned by many people both on this forum and at most clubs. So giff has a very valid question. There is no reason to shoot people down just because they do not immediatly understand all the rules. if the rules were always clear there would be no need for this forum.

Here is only one person that started shooting.

giff wrote:

Polkovnik wrote:

giff wrote:yes I was the rules are a little muddy on some of these little points like when removing bases from death rolls which of these do you remove the Hastati have deffrent armor so do i remove from the front rank or the rear???

And when a BG does have different troops (normally a mixed BG including archers) the rules on base removal specify how bases are removed. Maybe you could quote the so called "muddy" rules you refer to and they could be explained to you. Or is it just that you haven't actually read the rules fully ?

You know we have never met but i can tell you are stunted little man with few friends. I am sorry my inquire to some rules so bothers you, maybe you should find another hobby, something a little less social. Try model trains. Better yet don't respond to my posts, your input is not that important and I can do with out it. I would rather play wrong forever than take advice from the likes of you. Please feel free to check my grammar and spelling if it helps you fill your empty life.

***Moderator Comment***


Please keep cool guys - that was something of an over-reaction.

Thanks.

giff wrote:Which is the correct formation for Hasti and Prin.?


HHHH HHHH
HHHH HHHH
PPPP PPPP
PPPP PPPP

or
HHHH HHHH
PPPP PPPP
HHHH HHHH
PPPP PPPP

Assuming that these are bases in a battle group, the first is best for historical look, though it doesn't matter in game terms.

The Hastati formed the front line of the legion, the principes the second line and the Triarii the third. FoG happens to model this as a BG of both Hastati and Pricipes and another BG, usually smaller, to represent the Triarii. As others have said, since the Hastati and Principes are the same troop type there is no difference between them in game terms.


When you lose a base in hand to hand combat, you lose a front rank base. Sometimes you have a choice as to which one.

For example, you have a BG of 4 bases (2 wide, 2 deep) and are fighting one of your files against one enemy BG and the other against a different enemy BG. Let us say you score 1 hit against one enemy BG and one against the other. Unfortunately, the enemy do thrree hits in return and you lose a base. You must lose the base that is facing the enemy BG that inflicted most casualties. If both enemy BGs had infilcted 2 hits, then you would choose which base to remove.

It usually makes little odds which front rank base is removed, and here's why. The dead base is immediately replaced by any non front rank base. so either of your bases depicted as Principes can fill the gap.

Regards

Graham

giff wrote:

Polkovnik wrote:

giff wrote:yes I was the rules are a little muddy on some of these little points like when removing bases from death rolls which of these do you remove the Hastati have deffrent armor so do i remove from the front rank or the rear???

And when a BG does have different troops (normally a mixed BG including archers) the rules on base removal specify how bases are removed. Maybe you could quote the so called "muddy" rules you refer to and they could be explained to you. Or is it just that you haven't actually read the rules fully ?

You know we have never met but i can tell you are stunted little man with few friends. I am sorry my inquire to some rules so bothers you, maybe you should find another hobby, something a little less social. Try model trains. Better yet don't respond to my posts, your input is not that important and I can do with out it. I would rather play wrong forever than take advice from the likes of you. Please feel free to check my grammar and spelling if it helps you fill your empty life.

Well ignoring your rude and totally uncalled for personal attack on me, it's not the rules inquiry that bothers me. There's nothing wrong with enquiring about the rules - that's exactly what this forum is for after all. The problem was your general description of the rules as muddy, without referring to specific rules. Had you actually read the rules on base removal before asking the question? Not that these apply here anyway, because the BGs in question do not have different armour clases.
Saying they are muddy is just a very negative start when you are new to this forum and presumably new to the game.

MatthewP wrote:

But then I've never read all the rules. They are pretty dull.

I've never read the rules at all. I thought that was what Hammy was for.

The rule for base removal has been questioned by many people both on this forum and at most clubs. So giff has a very valid question. There is no reason to shoot people down just because they do not immediatly understand all the rules. if the rules were always clear there would be no need for this forum.

It wasn't the question that was the issue - it was the tone of the post. It's the attitude of "I don't understand it so it must be poorly written".

And there was no indication from his post that he had actually even read the rules on base removal.

And there was no indication from his post that he had actually even read the rules on base removal.

Or the MRR army list...

quote]Or the MRR army list...[/quote]

It is the only list out of all the books that the rule's author had to elaborate on due to its complexity:

viewtopic.php?t=9032

stecal wrote:It is the only list out of all the books that the rule's author had to elaborate on due to its complexity:

True but that relates to the proportions that the different types of BG must be fielded in. Nothing to do with the point in question here, which is hastati & principes being combined into one BG.