Slitherine

1. "Veteran warriors" should read "Noble or veteran warriors"

2. Maori are Polynesians, as are the kingdoms of the Hawaiian archipelago, which in terms of population of several hundred thousand and large open field battles deserve mention. (I'd call them the Sandwich Islands, but that would be anachronistically futuristic for this period.) Maori warfare was vigorous but generally irregular and on a smaller scale.

3. Besides some unique weaponry, Hawaiians were unusual, if not unique for Polynesia, in having the ali’i (nobles and gentry) fighting in a well-ordered “impenetrable” phalanx or “close column” of pololu (15 foot pikes made of koa hardwoods). Fighting to the death and slaughter of enemies was common. I vividly remember the Nu'uanu Pali, where you can lean way back into the winds rushing through the pass and peer over the low stone wall down a few hundred yards of sheer cliff to where the Oahu army fell when forced over the edge in the last battle of unification.

4. Impact Foot have the edge over Spearmen in Impact, which does not give the right relationship between commoners as Impact Foot and ali'i as Spearmen, although close combat weapons skills might rate Swordsmen and spears shorter than pololu were used that could be Light Spear.

5. I think blanket Impact Foot status overrates the commoners in stratified Polynesian cultures with a warrior elite (the combative Maori being on the other end of the spectrum). The Samoans were a village-based democratic culture, the Tahitians had a class structure with warrior charges that sound Impactful, there is a range of behavior - but it is probably after all unwise to argue for a classification down from Impact Foot that makes armies unplayable. All unarmoured is bad enough! Probably a good idea for Hawaii to replace the Superior IF with Ali'i as Spearmen Heavy Foot, and let the rest have their IF fun.

6. The bow/sling distinction is an overgeneralization, but not a big deal. Slingers certainly are correct for Hawaii. A vanguard of skilled skirmishers was used, said of some of these that their stones did not miss a hair of head nor blade of grass (I think they meant the grass reference as a measure of precision rather than a war on vegetation).

Aloha

Mike

I was thinking of doing a separate Hawaiian list based on Chris Cornule's Slingshot article as they are different.

MikeK wrote:All unarmoured is bad enough!

It would be in FOGAM. In FOGR it isn't a disadvantage.

rbodleyscott wrote:

MikeK wrote:All unarmoured is bad enough!

It would be in FOGAM. In FOGR it isn't a disadvantage.

Indeed, or isn't as much anyway.

The classification of the Pacific islanders is certainly open to change, BTW, as the classifications they have at present are more or less from the unused FoG:AM list draft. We can certainly balance what they have so that they don't become some odd super-army against, say, western armies, whilst making them work against each other (where, face it, if they were all the same would could give them no, or any, capabilities and it'd still work!)

nikgaukroger wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote:

MikeK wrote:All unarmoured is bad enough!

It would be in FOGAM. In FOGR it isn't a disadvantage.

Indeed, or isn't as much anyway.

Well I would say it isn't any at all. Armour is largely be a waste of points for foot if the enemy are pike and shot.

rbodleyscott wrote: Well I would say it isn't any at all. Armour is largely be a waste of points for foot if the enemy are pike and shot.

Plenty that aren't though, especially in this book

Certainly the current version of this list specifically excludes the Hawiaans (as Mike says they are v different from the other Polys)- as Nik says there is some stuff froma Slignshot article and the old DBM list to construct that list from if it is warrnated

I have additional information, but a list variation of a few lines should not be too difficult.

The use of pololu in a kind of phalanx is the key difference. These were broad rather than deep, so Spearmen is the inevitable classification.

If doing Hawaii by itself, the non-ali'i Impact Foot would need to be Light Spear at best instead since the pololu should have at least an even POA in Impact against the lower class troops who would not be engaging the spears head-on if possible. I mentioned the Pali above, where Kamehameha's spearmen drove their opponents over the edge.

However, against other Polynesians as Impact Foot these would all be down a POA so not happy even though not paying the point for capabilities means slightly larger armies. Against Pike and Shot types, Warrior Impact Foot is definitely worth having, as I mentioned in the report of my Siam vs. West battle last year. Spearmen and Impact Foot is a playable army.

Against Westerners, the ali'i might well have taken the Impact Foot approach if the pololu phalanx approach seemed pointless, as they were experienced with their other weapons.