Slitherine

Hi all

One question that came during a game last night
I had a BG of 6 Hvf Def Sp and 3 Lf bow
D D D
D D D
L L L
And I was charged by a Bg of Cv Lancers but they only came in contact with one base of Hvf.
I argued that I had 2 dice for the Hvf + 1 dice for the supporting Lf(one base LF rounded up). My opponent disagreed saying that supporting Lf get only 1 dice for every 2 bases fighting.
We played the battle the way he proposed (I wan the Impact), but I still think I was correct.

Any help
John

You were correct. Close combat dice are rounded up (this is in the imapct phase so is a close combat dice), shooting dice rounded down.

Dice are never rounded in FoG.

You either:

get 1 dice per N bases (which is in effect the same as round down and applies to shooting)

or

lose 1 dice per N dice (which is in effect the same as round up and applies to close combat)

Don't try to think about rounding. Just think am I getting dice or losing dice.

You were correct but not because of the rounding up.

You get 1 dice per base for support shooting and then you lose 1 dice per 2 if LF.

Guess your light foot bows should be smirking over that little victory now

The world is full of pedants. The dice in effect round up.

philqw78 wrote:The world is full of pedants. The dice in effect round up.

I agree that in effect the dice round up for close combat and down for shooting but if you read the charts and the rules there is absolutely no reference to division or rounding. Using the term rounding IMO is adding complexity and potential confusion.

philqw78 wrote:The world is full of pedants. The dice in effect round up.

Indeed - and as people tend to ask in terms of rounding up or down it is usually easier for them to understand if you answer that way too.

"Lose combat, add shots"

Seems to do the reminder trick in avoiding confusion associated with thinking circles around rounding.

You were wrong and your opponent right.
The rules say clearly that LF rolls 1 DICE PER 2 BASES also as supporting fire. It means you can shoot just once each 2 bases.
So that you have just 1 base shooting, you dont gain any dice. You would if 2 bases are shooting. If 3 bases then again 1 dice. You gain 2 dice if you have 4 or 5 bases, 3 dice if 6 or 7 bases, and so on.
You may say this is rounding down, but to not create confusion as you were doing, it's better to remind the purpose "1 dice per 2 bases" if in effective range, or "1 dice per 3 bases" outside range.

Anyway if your supporting fire are in range, you can shoot also with bases sidewards to the one straight on combat. So probably you would gain 1 dice only if this case. Otherwise is like above i wrote.

Good bye!

Hermano wrote:You were wrong and your opponent right.
The rules say clearly that LF rolls 1 DICE PER 2 BASES also as supporting fire. It means you can shoot just once each 2 bases.
So that you have just 1 base shooting, you dont gain any dice. You would if 2 bases are shooting. If 3 bases then again 1 dice. You gain 2 dice if you have 4 or 5 bases, 3 dice if 6 or 7 bases, and so on.
You may say this is rounding down, but to not create confusion as you were doing, it's better to remind the purpose "1 dice per 2 bases" if in effective range, or "1 dice per 3 bases" outside range.

Err.. are you sure about that? My rules suggest support fire in impact is 1 dice per base, then under the 'All' section, being LF they lose 1 per 2 bases. Are you confusing Shooting and Impact?

Steve P

In supporting fire Foot gain 1 dice per base.
In reduction you can see that LF dont lose 1 dice per 2 only if against other LF.
Then you notice that in supporting fire LF cannot shoot against any foot, but only against mounted.
This means clearly that LF whatever shoot at 1 dice per 2 bases as much as a normal shooting phase.
The case mentioned in this post is LF supporting HF charged by CV, therefore they gain 1 dice per 2 bases. If charged by other foot, they wouldnt support at all.

This is what i understood by looking at rules.

Good bye

Hermano wrote:In supporting fire Foot gain 1 dice per base.
In reduction you can see that LF dont lose 1 dice per 2 only if against other LF.
Then you notice that in supporting fire LF cannot shoot against any foot, but only against mounted.
This means clearly that LF whatever shoot at 1 dice per 2 bases as much as a normal shooting phase.
The case mentioned in this post is LF supporting HF charged by CV, therefore they gain 1 dice per 2 bases. If charged by other foot, they wouldnt support at all.

This is what i understood by looking at rules.

LF have 1 dice per 2nd or 3rd rank base behind a base in combat versus mounted. In this case it would be 1 dice.

They then lose 1 dice per 2 [unless...]

As there is 1 dice only, they don't lose anything.

The end result is 2 dice for the front rank base, 1 for the LF in the 3rd rank. John is very much right.

See the impact phase dice table on p 92.

Hermano wrote:In supporting fire Foot gain 1 dice per base.
In reduction you can see that LF dont lose 1 dice per 2 only if against other LF.
Then you notice that in supporting fire LF cannot shoot against any foot, but only against mounted.
This means clearly that LF whatever shoot at 1 dice per 2 bases as much as a normal shooting phase.
The case mentioned in this post is LF supporting HF charged by CV, therefore they gain 1 dice per 2 bases. If charged by other foot, they wouldnt support at all.

This is what i understood by looking at rules.

Good bye

I believe you are mis-reading the tables. Check again as every one here agrees he should have got one dice. Apply the tables as per the headings then apply anything specific to light foot after.

"IMPACT
Supporting fire
(not light foot vs foot)
One rank of foot with bow, longbow, crossbow or firearm in 2nd or (if bow)
3rd rank behind stationary medium or heavy foot in combat: 1 dice per base
(0 dice vs flank/rear charge)"

So 1 dice per base as 3rd rank of LF against mounted. Then....

"ALL
LF or LH in impact or melee Lose 1 dice per 2 unless LF vs LF, or LH vs LH or LF,
or any vs FRAGMENTED enemy"

Since he only has 1 LF dice to start he does not lose any.

Steve P

The rule seems clearly spelled out at the top of page 99: "...support shooters get 1 dice per supporting base. Light foot lose 1 dice per 2 dice as normal, so get 1 dice per 2 supporting bases, rounded up." Sorry, Hammy but the "R-word" is used in the rules.

Terry G.

Actually Terry if you had 2 LF support shooting you would start with 2 dice as Stenic pointed out. Then you lose 1 die for being light foot not vs LF.
If you only had 1 base of LF shooting support you get 1 die and get to keep it since you only lose 1 die per 2 you only start with 1 so you keep it. There is no rounding involved, grab the dice and then subtract the dice you would lose. Much easier to actually physically lay them out and remove what you should then to think in terms of rounding and advanced physics

deadtorius wrote:Much easier to actually physically lay them out and remove what you should then to think in terms of rounding and advanced physics

Much quicker to say - half the number of bases, rounded up or down. No advanced physics (or even maths) required.

Its not half the number of bases thats the whole point.
You get the full number of dice and remove 1 die per every 2 since they are light foot shooting at non-light foot. LIke I said if you lay them all out and then physically remove them you get the proper number left over, which was the authors intention. A simple concept everyone is trying to make difficult.

deadtorius wrote:Its not half the number of bases thats the whole point.
You get the full number of dice and remove 1 die per every 2 since they are light foot shooting at non-light foot. LIke I said if you lay them all out and then physically remove them you get the proper number left over, which was the authors intention. A simple concept everyone is trying to make difficult.

You get the same number if you half the number of bases and round up or down (depending on the situation - round up in combat, down in shooting, IIRC). That is a simple concept and I think is how most people do it.
Your method also works but is more time consuming.
If you disagree that they give the same final number of dice, give an actual example and you'll see that the outcome is the same.