Slitherine

I have noticed that some of players pick LF as filler. I was looking a the Central Asian City States list and playing around with a few list ideas for my non medieval army.
It gets LF unprot, ave ,bow @5pts and MF unprot, ave ,bow @5pts which one do I take? Yes the LF can skirmish but the MF have more shooting dice and in uneven or difficult terrain the MF will fight better. If you are the Steppe the LF will just get run down where as MF will at least see off LH.

BlackPrince wrote:I have noticed that some of players pick LF as filler. I was looking a the Central Asian City States list and playing around with a few list ideas for my non medieval army.
It gets LF unprot, ave ,bow @5pts and MF unprot, ave ,bow @5pts which one do I take? Yes the LF can skirmish but the MF have more shooting dice and in uneven or difficult terrain the MF will fight better. If you are the Steppe the LF will just get run down where as MF will at least see off LH.

I think unprotected MF bow are a juicy target for anyone playing against a steppe army. they are the only things that wont be able to get away easily. This may be preferred as a lure, but then will need attention paid to them. LF should have no preoblems keeping safe in the steppe.

expendablecinc wrote:

BlackPrince wrote:I have noticed that some of players pick LF as filler. I was looking a the Central Asian City States list and playing around with a few list ideas for my non medieval army.
It gets LF unprot, ave ,bow @5pts and MF unprot, ave ,bow @5pts which one do I take? Yes the LF can skirmish but the MF have more shooting dice and in uneven or difficult terrain the MF will fight better. If you are the Steppe the LF will just get run down where as MF will at least see off LH.

I think unprotected MF bow are a juicy target for anyone playing against a steppe army. they are the only things that wont be able to get away easily. This may be preferred as a lure, but then will need attention paid to them. LF should have no preoblems keeping safe in the steppe.

Would not take the medium foot they are a target being undrilled is so bad and there will not be much terrain to hide in the steppes.

Does the take home message of leave the MF at home change if the terrain is changed from Steppe to Agricultural?

Unfortunately not, they are still walking targets. They will get shot to bits by skirmishers or other bowmen and murdered in combat by everything.

The LF can generally get away if things get a bit sticky and also shoot effectively.

MF may get more shooting dice but over a whole game the LF will shoot a lot more.

Unprotected undrilled bow MF are certainly vulnerable. The only times I've seen them on the table was en masse. You often see them in Christian Nubian armies, where they are superior, or in Classical Indian, where there are lots of them. Also, some of the bow based biblical armies can do well. I think these can work because a big long line of bow really plays the 'maximise shooting' card and it's hard for the enemy to gang up on them.

Individual units of same I suspect will be less good. However, perceived wisdom is sometimes wrong. It may be that there's a good use for these that no-one has found as yet.

Undrilled MF bow might be difficult to combine with other CACS troop types. It's a 'manouver and shoot' army. A troops type that does one well but not the other could be tricky.

LF: Easy to use, simple to deploy.

MF: Yes, bait and a target, but they are OK in terrain and throw cheap dice if you can force a nice target to get in range and sit there for a while (pins and threats, anyone?). So for that lone MF BG you need to know what you are doing with a clear purpose and tactical doctrine for them so they don't end up useless or road kill.

Graham in your opinion the CACS army should go with the shoot and scoot troops of Cv arm, bow, swordmens not the Cv arm, lance, swordsmen as the main fighting force?

Lancers for CACS. The undrilled status of the Bow Swordsmen makes it an easy decision. If they were drilled I would still go for Lancers, but others would go for the Bow, Sword chaps. It is a close call.

Given that the CACS army is generally a mounted army then I wouldn't go for the MF bow as they are likely to be stood around in the open (scared) and hoping nobody notices them. The chances are that somebody will.

LF can quickly turn around and run through your cavalry or the cavalry can move through them. With MF they will get in the way of your cav. Strangely I would also go for the lancer option. If your cavalry then burst through the archers at least the archers can get out of the way as LF, unlike MF who may well prevent them from breaking off or expanding.

I think a lot of people underestimate the MF unprotected bow.

But as other have mentioned they are much happier with Elephants on either side, Or superior or etc etc.

Drilled MF Bow particularly when protected are actually quite handy.

As other have said, start with LF as they are more forgiving until you get up to speed.

Also unportected bow probably should be 8s which makes them not cheap filler which argues for the LF bow where they can run away easier.

I had forgotten about being able to interpenetration the LF that does make life easier. I have made the change to my army list. As I also plan to use the City Militia as poor mod with targets painted on them front and back adding an extra BG that will become backup targets sounds too much useless filter.

The next question is what type of figures to use;
For the horse archers (LH & prot CV) Turcomen would seem the most likely choice.
What about the Armoured Nobles? the early part maybe Kushan but as I want to do after the 8th century the time of the Arab push into Central Asia what About Ghilman? and Arab foot for the archers? Any suggestions would be appreciated.