Slitherine

Shooting at armored cav with bows is 25% (no POA) , protected cav 44% (+ POA), unprotected cav even higher (++ POA) and LH 25%. I was playing against Bosporans and noticed that odds with bows against their unprotected bow-armed cavalry was 25% just the same as shooting at them if they were deployed at LH! The protected lancers yielded 44% odds. This is clearly a bug and it explains why Bosporans are nearly invincible.

Developers: please look into this and if it's a bug, please fix it in the coming patch.

Deeter

deeter wrote:Shooting at armored cav with bows is 25% (no POA) , protected cav 44% (+ POA), unprotected cav even higher (++ POA) and LH 25%. I was playing against Bosporans and noticed that odds with bows against their unprotected bow-armed cavalry was 25% just the same as shooting at them if they were deployed at LH! The protected lancers yielded 44% odds. This is clearly a bug and it explains why Bosporans are nearly invincible.

Developers: please look into this and if it's a bug, please fix it in the coming patch.

Deeter

Since this hasn't changed in the 1.2.7 beta, see my longer answer in the support forum. The short answer is that this is functioning as designed and is not a bug.

Chris

Shooting at armored cav with bows is 25% (no POA) , protected cav 44% (+ POA), unprotected cav even higher (++ POA) and LH 25%. I was playing against Bosporans and noticed that odds with bows against their unprotected bow-armed cavalry was 25% just the same as shooting at them if they were deployed at LH! The protected lancers yielded 44% odds. This is clearly a bug and it explains why Bosporans are nearly invincible.

Developers: please look into this and if it's a bug, please fix it in the coming patch.

1) If you choose to take part in the Beta then please please please only post in the Beta forum. If its not a Beta issue then use the tech support forum but please not both, its confusing and hard to keep track of replies.

2) On your shooting odds just created a test scenario and all the odd seem spot on:- LF/LH Bows shooting at any cavalry or LH is 25%, at heavily armoured cataphracts or knights is 11%. Exactly as intended.

3) Any variations could only be because of terrain/cover or the shooting cohesion.

If you can produce any other results why not use the scenario editor to create a test scenario and send it to me.
Thanks
Keith

keithmartinsmith wrote:Shooting at armored cav with bows is 25% (no POA) , protected cav 44% (+ POA), unprotected cav even higher (++ POA) and LH 25%. I was playing against Bosporans and noticed that odds with bows against their unprotected bow-armed cavalry was 25% just the same as shooting at them if they were deployed at LH! The protected lancers yielded 44% odds. This is clearly a bug and it explains why Bosporans are nearly invincible.

Developers: please look into this and if it's a bug, please fix it in the coming patch.

1) If you choose to take part in the Beta then please please please only post in the Beta forum. If its not a Beta issue then use the tech support forum but please not both, its confusing and hard to keep track of replies.

2) On your shooting odds just created a test scenario and all the odd seem spot on:- LF/LH Bows shooting at any cavalry or LH is 25%, at heavily armoured cataphracts or knights is 11%. Exactly as intended.

3) Any variations could only be because of terrain/cover or the shooting cohesion.

If you can produce any other results why not use the scenario editor to create a test scenario and send it to me.
Thanks
Keith

Keith,

Lance armed cavalry are an exception to the 25% for all cavalry. Bows shoot at unprotected lance armed cavalry at ++PoA and at protected lancers at +PoA. This is true in game and in the missile PoA table in the help so I assume it is functioning as intended.

Chris

Sorry. Didn't mean to cause any confusion. And thanks batesmotel for pointing out the other possible outcomes.

Things may be working as intended, but my point is the intention is at fault. Consider armored jv cav. They are at 25% just like unprotected bow cav. That's just wrong. At any rate, I'll take this to the tech forum.

Deeter

Its the author of FOG you need to take this up with. If we vary too much from the printed rules we get a lot of messages and unhappy players. In FOG PC the factors are worked out to be the optimal for the game assuming what you would do on the TT. On the TT no-one on the or right mind approaches bowmen with unprotected cavalry 2 deep for ++ for the bowmwn. You would approach with your cavalry 1 deep for evens/25%. As we do not have formations for the BG's in the game system we have to assume the formations are optimal.
Keith

keithmartinsmith wrote:Its the author of FOG you need to take this up with. If we vary too much from the printed rules we get a lot of messages and unhappy players. In FOG PC the factors are worked out to be the optimal for the game assuming what you would do on the TT. On the TT no-one on the or right mind approaches bowmen with unprotected cavalry 2 deep for ++ for the bowmwn. You would approach with your cavalry 1 deep for evens/25%. As we do not have formations for the BG's in the game system we have to assume the formations are optimal.
Keith

So I assume that players using unprotected or protected lancers in FoG PC are therefore assumed to not be in their right mind since they do get shot at as if two deep?

Chris

No you just don't use then 2 deep when you could be shot at. Just played in a mini's competition with 3 units of protected lancers and they never were shot at 2 deep. FOG PC is a compromise of some of the rules for fun and playability, there are no formations as such so we have to interpret the rules for what formations would a unit be in. Keith

keithmartinsmith wrote:No you just don't use then 2 deep when you could be shot at. Just played in a mini's competition with 3 units of protected lancers and they never were shot at 2 deep. FOG PC is a compromise of some of the rules for fun and playability, there are no formations as such so we have to interpret the rules for what formations would a unit be in. Keith

So why are cavalry lancers singled out for special treatment in FoG PC vs other unprotected and protected cavalry? (I normally use 3 units of unprotected cavalry horse archers when running Scythians in FoG TT, so I understand about keeping them in 1 rank versus shooting.) I admit I was somewhat surprised when I found the special shooting PoAs that only apply for cavalry lancers but had shrugged it off until this discussion.

Chris

One rank deep may be optimal for taking fire, but then these troops are magically two deep for close combat, even in the same turn? This seems to be very generous. At the very least, these troops should cost a few points more to compensate for their being in optimal formation at all times without having to change formation.

Deeter