Slitherine

Ok, on pp. 76 - 78 the rules for side edge to side edge contacts are explained. Part of this, allows such units that are not counting as overlap to turn 90 degrees to face the enemy. The enemy may then choose NOT to turn to face those stands. In that case, what POAs are used for the bases facing the flank in melee? If the enemy are pikes who are not facing, do they get POAs for 3rd and 4th ranks? Spears? Other weapons POAs? Armor?

Or is it like a flank impact at ++ to --?

Thanks,

Rob

if they dont turn normal POA's for melee would apply, so no ++/-- for flank charge as it does not get any impact POA's
IF the enemy are not engaged frontally they do not take a - for fighting in 2 directions, if they are engaged frontally they take the - for fighting in two directions. If the pikes are not frontally engaged then I would guess they get normal POA's, if they are frontally engaged they would probably not get the 4th rank POA but could still get the 3rank one depending on casualties and if they still have 3 ranks fighting. Same applies to spears, if not frontally engaged they get normal POA's if frontally engaged they don't. Normal armour, mounted swords, heavy weapon, elephant etc POA's would still apply.
Guess the real question is if your enemy turns into your flank why would you not want to turn and face them??? Only reason I could guess is there is unengaged enemy to your front that would threaten a flank charge and auto cohesion loss.

Hope that was clear enough for you, kind of a confusing rule to say the least.

If the enemy have not turned to face the flankers, I think they would count PoAs for the lowest level of armor of the stands contacted and any weapon PoAs that apply and do not require additional ranks of troops since they will not have ranks facing the flankers. e.g. A sword or heavy weapon PoA would apply but pike and spear PoAs would not although the spear or pike could still cancel opposing sword PoAs.

Chris

Yes, one of the reasons to not turn would usually be because of a threat to the current front.

We were thinking that any non-rank dependent POAs would apply, but those that require ranks would not.

Any thoughts about what happens if the unit contacted on the side has spears or pikes and the contacting BG is swordsmen? Are swords negated or not? I assume they would be, even though the basis of negating the swords (can't get past the spear points) seems to be missing when in contact on the flank with no spear facing them.

IF the enemy are not engaged frontally they do not take a - for fighting in 2 directions, if they are engaged frontally they take the - for fighting in two directions.

Page 78: "If it does not turn bases to face, it will get no dice in the melee, but will not count as fighting enemy in 2 directions if it is also fighting enemy to its front."

Terry G."

TERRYFROMSPOKANE wrote:

IF the enemy are not engaged frontally they do not take a - for fighting in 2 directions, if they are engaged frontally they take the - for fighting in two directions.

Page 78: "If it does not turn bases to face, it will get no dice in the melee, but will not count as fighting enemy in 2 directions if it is also fighting enemy to its front."

Terry G."

But what are the POAs for the stands that are fighting against the BG that gets no dice? If against Pike or Spear, do they get the + for steady and in 2 or 3 ranks and pikes plus for 4 ranks, which translate to - POAs for the attacker, even is the defender does not get to throw dice.

Rob