Slitherine

A bunch of lists allowed 2 stand battlegroups, usually for something fairly elite. I'm not interested in suggestions about what to do with elephants. But what do you two with 2 stand battlegroups in other armies? There are triarii in the MRR, companions in the late seleucid list, the elite cav in the ottoman army, the royal guard in some WotR lists.

2 pak triarii are excellent rear support and heft enough to take over (and survive the rolls for seeing broken friends) when friends in front break


2pak companions can slice through stuff if timed just right

Blathergut wrote:2pak companions can slice through stuff if timed just right

Ditto for the 2pak of WotR Royal Guard. In one battle I had they smashed 2 BG of enemy dismounted knights / billmen in succession.

They also up the number of BG. Oh how I wish that my Principate Roman was allowed them. Really useful 2 deep across the join of 4 base BGs, especially if Elite or Superior.

I take it that the plan is in no case to lead with them, but to have them lingering near the action ready to take advantage of a situation?

The opponent will pay attention to where your 2-base BGs are, because they are both a threat and a target. When kept in reserve and support they remain a threat and are less of a target.

They are a target because both 2-base and 4-base Superior/Elite BGs autobreak when down to 1 base. The 4-base ones can take a lot of damage and fearlessly get into the fight. With 2 bases, a single bad death roll and they are gone. They should be used where they are not exposed to the risk of converged enemy shooting and ideally where they fight in close combat on a tight frontage with friends on either side or as a safe overlap.

In the middle of a battle line they don't have much risk of taking base loss from shooting. In close combat, the adjoining friends may still lose a combat based on the results on their own frontage, but the 2-pak may provide or absorb an overlap and since of high quality increases the chance that the enemy will lose - and it's who loses rather than who wins that decides the fights.

I view this all as an argument for putting them in next to strong troops facing a favorable match-up to force a break rather than trying to shore up weakness.

Cheers,

Mike

Other thing I forgot, foot BG of 2 bases have the same frontage when they turn 90 degrees. Another useful attribute, if you can get them onto someone's flank.

Rear support and flank attacks are the 2 main benefits in my view.

petedalby wrote:Rear support and flank attacks are the 2 main benefits in my view.

They are a fairly cheap way to keep enemy skirmishers honest too:

In my most frequent seleucid list there the mounted wing can be quite a threat
2 companions
2 companions
2 elephants
2 elephants
2 scythed chariots
2 scythed chariots
4 cataphracts

So long as the 2packs stay 3-4 inches apart they prosent quite a threat to any larger groups of mounted. Fairly easy to set up flank charges so long as your 2packs can stand at least a round of combat.

timmy1 wrote:Other thing I forgot, forr BG of 2 bases have the same frontage when they turn 90 degrees. Another useful attribute, if you can get them onto someone's flank.

Not the mounted kind.

Thanks Dan. Now corrected.

I generally remove them after a single combat wherein I lose (or even win but take three hits) and then roll a 1 on a death roll.

I try to leave them in support, but usually I need to plug a hole and then roll the 1 at first opportunity.

Rob

>(or even win but take three hits)

And that is why you should be trying hard not to operate a 2-base BG unsupported...make sure the enemy only gets two dice against them and this won't be a problem. And given that 2-base BGs are usually kick-arse troops anyway, often re-rolling at least 1s and 2s, the chances of at least drawing the combat are pretty high.

If they get outflanked because the BG next to them broke, then yes this can become a problem, but I think it only fair in that case to pin the blame firmly on the BG which ran away and left them with insufficient support, rather than the 2-base BG which is suddenly trying to hold the line to make up for its rubbish comrades

Elephants of course are inherently more brittle...because they are likely to be fighting in a single rank and facing 4 enemy dice, and don't get the nice re-rolls of elite companions or triarii.