Slitherine

3 questions:

Over the years I have seen several references to Mongol "uniforms" with little backup information as to what if anything was uniform. I have read an account of very rigid color schemes of robes and their trim colors, to units' adoption of specific horse colors (If true, there would have been a lot of brown I would think). Does anyone know where hard data can be found to support any of this? I would have assumed a hadgepodge of drab, normal working wear for the rank and file.

Many depictions of Mongol lamellar and plate armor shows black surfaces. Is this lacquer, some blueing type process, or general grunge? Would there be any preponderance of black over plain polished steel or iron?

TIA for any advice on modelling these guys.

I would suggest The Devils Horsemen by James Chamers, on Page 68 he states both Heavy and Light Cavalry had basic uniform the same blue or Brown Tunics, the caps they were also different colours he has'nt given a date but I would imigane it was after they came under the control of the Great Khan.

Check out the web site History of the Steppes type it in your search engine it should come up a very good site for the Mongols and their enemies.

Dave

Skullzgrinda wrote:3 questions:

Over the years I have seen several references to Mongol "uniforms" with little backup information as to what if anything was uniform. I have read an account of very rigid color schemes of robes and their trim colors, to units' adoption of specific horse colors (If true, there would have been a lot of brown I would think). Does anyone know where hard data can be found to support any of this? I would have assumed a hadgepodge of drab, normal working wear for the rank and file.

Many depictions of Mongol lamellar and plate armor shows black surfaces. Is this lacquer, some blueing type process, or general grunge? Would there be any preponderance of black over plain polished steel or iron?

TIA for any advice on modelling these guys.

While it is clear that certain units had uniforms, and that these were issued from central stores, there is no evidence to actual colours/trims etc.
Howarth used 19th c evidence from Moghulistan to suggest blue and brown as uniform colours. He also obtained the 'two red ribbons' and 'uniform horse colours' data from there. It's possible that this applied during the conquest era.

There is data from Yuan China and from later Golden Horde units but it's only recorded for elite units. The only definite early uniform that I can think of is for the Black Army in North China. After the surrender of Chin Chou in 1216, Shih-mo Yeh-hsien (a Turk, turmen commander and one of Mukhali’s chief lieutenants) took over the ‘Black Army’ 12,000 elite armoured cavalry (mostly Jurchen and Hsi) so called for their black uniforms and armour. They are noted as having particularly good discipline and training. They were then used as a vanguard division and for ‘special ops’ (eg a night raid that captured the Chin commander in his field camp in 1217. When Shih-mo Yeuh-hsien was killed they transferred to Shih T’ien-hsiang (Chinese, another of Mukhali’s closest advisors).

As for armour. Iron armour of the period was normally highly polished. Leather lamella were lacquered red (a fairly deep red) or black.

Tom..

Thanks very much to both of you for your replies.

Dave - you nudged my memory. I did read the account of the uniforms in "Devil's Horsemen" years ago, but could not recall the title. Somehow I had it in mind that the uniform colors were black, red and brown but that did not seem quite right either. I think I recall the blue and brown desriptions now - still popular on the steppes. I will certainly check the website you recommend.

Tom - The Black Army is new information to me, and would certainly fit many of the illustrations that I have seen. A very tempting subject right there. You've given me quite a bit to work with. The dark red lamellar and polished metal sounds lush.

Skullzgrinda wrote:Thanks very much to both of you for your replies.

Dave - you nudged my memory. I did read the account of the uniforms in "Devil's Horsemen" years ago, but could not recall the title. Somehow I had it in mind that the uniform colors were black, red and brown but that did not seem quite right either. I think I recall the blue and brown desriptions now - still popular on the steppes. I will certainly check the website you recommend.

Tom - The Black Army is new information to me, and would certainly fit many of the illustrations that I have seen. A very tempting subject right there. You've given me quite a bit to work with. The dark red lamellar and polished metal sounds lush.

oops, should have been clearer. Chamber's takes the uniform 'information' straight from Howarth (who only details his source in a later note).

nb there are two editions of 'The Devils Horsemen', the second is considerably improved, though both are excellent.