Slitherine

Anyone have any idea if the Northern Border troops from the HYW-English and WOR lists from Storm of Arrows would were any specific livery?

I have seen a reference (that I have not been able to confirm) that they wore red and black livery. Don't know if that is true, hence the question.

Christopher Anders

I think Percy's livery was red and black. I guess his troops might be considered northern border troops.

Possibly you want this:

http://www.vexillia.ltd.uk/common/shop_books.html#5

According to Heath's AMAvol1, Henry Percy had 3 stripes of russet, yellow and tawny in the 100YW. So no idea when it changed to red and black, assuming that to be correct.

Of course, black and white would be acceptable too

A very good question, which I have also been pursuing. Assuming that Northern Border troops are the same thing as the border reivers on the English side of the border, taking a break from cattle rustling, kidnapping, arson and murder to serve the crown, we are not talking about Percy's livieried retainers.. That rumbling noise is in fact several generations of Percys rotating in their graves at the thought..

I just picked up the Osprey title 'Border Reivers' which says that Borderers in royal service affixed a small badge bearing a red cross, to distinguish them from cattle thieves (their day job) or indeed their Scottish counterparts. At least one official is on record as believing that the badges were suspiciously small, and rather too easily detached if circumstances warranted.

Standard equipment would be a jack, helmet, lance. I think, (he guessed) that hobilar figures would be close enough.

Some way after the 100YW, the Osprey book has a colourful account of the Border Horse contribution at Flodden, where they charged into the thick of the melee to extract Edmund Howard from the wreckage of his division and bring him to safety, and then, job done, plugged the hole in the English line, facing off against the Scottish border contingent, both sides content to let the battle be decided elsewhere.

The classic work on the reivers is George McDonald Frasers 'Steel Bonnets'

peteratjet wrote:A very good question, which I have also been pursuing. Assuming that Northern Border troops are the same thing as the border reivers on the English side of the border, taking a break from cattle rustling, kidnapping, arson and murder to serve the crown, we are not talking about Percy's livieried retainers.. That rumbling noise is in fact several generations of Percys rotating in their graves at the thought..

Not reivers really I'm afraid, they are really the northern version of the county militia - muster records indicate there may have been a higher incidence of spear use in the north, and they are allowed to be Average as they are more likely to be experienced (and more hardy than the soft southerners).

peterrjohnston wrote:Possibly you want this:

http://www.vexillia.ltd.uk/common/shop_books.html#5

According to Heath's AMAvol1, Henry Percy had 3 stripes of russet, yellow and tawny in the 100YW. So no idea when it changed to red and black, assuming that to be correct.

Of course, black and white would be acceptable too

I did see a large number (about 52,000) of black and white clad Northerners at the weekend.

nikgaukroger wrote:

peteratjet wrote:A very good question, which I have also been pursuing. Assuming that Northern Border troops are the same thing as the border reivers on the English side of the border, taking a break from cattle rustling, kidnapping, arson and murder to serve the crown, we are not talking about Percy's livieried retainers.. That rumbling noise is in fact several generations of Percys rotating in their graves at the thought..

Not reivers really I'm afraid, they are really the northern version of the county militia - muster records indicate there may have been a higher incidence of spear use in the north, and they are allowed to be Average as they are more likely to be experienced (and more hardy than the soft southerners).

I guess you know your own book, but the Northern Border horse employed by Edward III all the way through to Henry VIII as scouts, and general odd-bank-job men ~were~ reivers.