Slitherine

Can't seem to figure out the best way to use them against other Lh, if I go to shoot I am usually danced out by b or xb armed Lh, and if I charge anything except Lh b - - I am down in melee, which is the undoing of them.

How do I use them best against other Lh ?

Scrumpy wrote:Can't seem to figure out the best way to use them against other Lh, if I go to shoot I am usually danced out by b or xb armed Lh, and if I charge anything except Lh b - - I am down in melee, which is the undoing of them.

How do I use them best against other Lh ?

Leave them and pick on the LF if you have to fight LH Bow/Sword use medium foot to support if you can have them otherwise gang up 2 BGs against 1BG or have IC to cover any shooting you might take move close so they haver to stand when you charge try have general with you and then its down to luck, LH V LH is a lottery just a few thoughts

Its very difficult. But since they cost less than 75% of the popints of Bw Sw LH they should be beaten 1 on 1.

Alternatively upgrade them to Jinetes.



Rob

philqw78 wrote:Its very difficult. But since they cost less than 75% of the popints of Bw Sw LH they should be beaten 1 on 1.

4 LH bow/sword = 40 points 6 LH jav/lts sp = 42

The bow shoot further but the jav get an extra dice

At impact the jav are a POA up

In melee while the bow/sword are a POA up that is compensated for by the extra dice...

Seems fairly even to me.

hammy wrote:

philqw78 wrote:Its very difficult. But since they cost less than 75% of the popints of Bw Sw LH they should be beaten 1 on 1.

4 LH bow/sword = 40 points 6 LH jav/lts sp = 42

The bow shoot further but the jav get an extra dice

At impact the jav are a POA up

In melee while the bow/sword are a POA up that is compensated for by the extra dice...

Seems fairly even to me.

Wonderful maths Hammy, but that's 3 to 2. And ignores the bow shooting from further away, still causing a test on 2 hits, and then being luckier than you ever are in FoG. (but you used all your luck up in DBM)

philqw78 wrote:

hammy wrote:

philqw78 wrote:Its very difficult. But since they cost less than 75% of the popints of Bw Sw LH they should be beaten 1 on 1.

4 LH bow/sword = 40 points 6 LH jav/lts sp = 42

The bow shoot further but the jav get an extra dice

At impact the jav are a POA up

In melee while the bow/sword are a POA up that is compensated for by the extra dice...

Seems fairly even to me.

Wonderful maths Hammy, but that's 3 to 2. And ignores the bow shooting from further away, still causing a test on 2 hits, and then being luckier than you ever are in FoG. (but you used all your luck up in DBM)

Err and I didn't mention either of those points where?

Assuming roughly equal points (so 3 to 2 odds) then the bow LH move to 4 MU and shoot with a 1 in 4 chance of causing a test and only a 15 in 36 chance of disrupting if they do hit. That ends up a 15 in 144 chance of disrupting the javelin LH.

Assuming no disruption then the javelin chaps can close to 2 MU and get 3 shots. With 3 shots the chace of causing a test is 1 in 2 and the chance of disrupting is 21 in 36 that means a 42 in 144 chance of disrupting the bow light horse.

If there are no other factors involved then a BG of 6 javelin light horse is better than a BG of 4 bow seord light horse both in shooting (when you combine both players bounds) and at impact. They are even in melee.

I see no problems at all with the effectivenes of javelin light horse.

I'd go with Hammy's suggestion - field them in 6's. Otherwise you are on a hiding to nothing every time.

petedalby wrote:I'd go with Hammy's suggestion - field them in 6's. Otherwise you are on a hiding to nothing every time.

Do you suggest this as standard doctrine, or just a few BGs in 6s?

petedalby wrote:I'd go with Hammy's suggestion - field them in 6's. Otherwise you are on a hiding to nothing every time.

I'd still think 4's for movement 6's are difficlut to get out of trouble and 6's still can be picked on by Bow LH for shooting.

Do you suggest this as standard doctrine, or just a few BGs in 6s?


It's not something I've ever done but if you want to take LH Bow Sword on aggressively it might worth a try? 42 AP vs 40 AP - and once you're in jav range you've a much better chance of making them go disrupted. I guess it depends on what army you're using.

Once the Bow Sw are disrupted charge them - 4 - now 3 at a minus versus 4 at a plus - got to be a good chance of going fragged

Since putting them in 6's will drop the number of LH BG's all depending on the army your fighting if its LH heavy you may just find yourself outnumbered. I have found if you can outflank one end of enemies LH ie pick on one BG with two of yours you get 4 Dice against one BG a good chance of disruption. Still give it a shot maybe it'll work for you.

Put a unit of slingers or archers in front of them. I have done this against LH bowSword and has worked sometimes. The Slingers can reach the bow and then run away through the JvLs LH.

hammy wrote: I see no problems at all with the effectivenes of javelin light horse.

My Numidians might beg to differ.

flamingpig0 wrote:

hammy wrote: I see no problems at all with the effectivenes of javelin light horse.

My Numidians might beg to differ.

Sounds like it is time to haul out an army which uses javelin armed light horse.

So far the only army I have used that has them in quantity is Santa Hermandad and there because they are protected the matchup vs bow sword light horse is actually a good one.

I don't think it is the javelin light horse that is the bad point of a Numidian army, there are other areas where the army is weak IMO.

A lot of the muslim armies in Iberia have masses of LH jv/Ls.

They work well to hold some space while the spear moves into position.

They are fine (especially for the cost) when dealing with enemy LH and just generally slowing down enemy moves. The real problem is that the 2MU range limits their ability to damage the enemy (especially enemy mounted) with shooting.

I think they need to be used in a very different manner than LH Bow. They will lose against LH Bow and get mullered by LH Bow Sword. However, if they operate with cavalry then they can catch other light horse as the Cavalry also charge.

I guess the bottom line is that they need friends to work whereas the good old horse archer can act independently.

I'd be a bit nervous when facing them with an equal number of LH bow. Yes I've got a longer firing range so will probably getan unopposed first shot, but that's not certain. Yes I may often be able to make a CMT and back off to get a free shot in my bound. But with equal cohesion and number of bases the jav LH will be charging whenever they get the chance. If I submit to combat not only do I have to worry about what happens in impact, but I've also thrown away my one advantage, the greater shooting range. So I'd want to evade. Hopefully I can avoid putting myself in a postion where there's any real chance of me being caught...but even so this is using up a lot of time and there is still no guarantee I'll eventually defeat them.

Of course I'd feel a little more nervous if I had the jav LH facing the bow LH, but I've done that a number of times successfully.

And even more of course, bow sword LH is scary. So then it's all down to whether you can make good use of the extra points.

I agree that fielding the jav LH in sixes is a smart move in this sort of matchup...but perhaps only if I have a single BG on either flank. 2 BGs of 6 on the same flank I would prefer to field as 3x4.

ShrubMiK wrote:I agree that fielding the jav LH in sixes is a smart move in this sort of matchup...but perhaps only if I have a single BG on either flank. 2 BGs of 6 on the same flank I would prefer to field as 3x4.

There is value to 3 BGs of 4 but the advantages of 6s are considerable when it comes to being shot at. Needing 3 hits for the minus 1 and two base losses to take 25% is a nice edge.

How does this sound for a 'fair' fight?

4 BG of 4 LH bow sword vs 2 BG of 6 LH javelin light spear and 3 BG of 4 LH javelin light spear?